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* [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code
@ 2022-09-18 16:21 M. Osman Talayman
  2022-09-18 17:59 ` Jacob Moody
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: M. Osman Talayman @ 2022-09-18 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Hello,

I have begun reading the code for P9 and am wondering if this is the
list to use for questions concerning the code I don't understand
(which is probably going to be most of it)?

I work as a systems developer (D365FO). I have never coded in C and
never read kernel code before, so my questions will be simplistic for
many of you. (hopefully you will have the patiens to answer my
question)

-- 
Osman

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code
  2022-09-18 16:21 [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code M. Osman Talayman
@ 2022-09-18 17:59 ` Jacob Moody
  2022-09-18 18:20   ` M. Osman Talayman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jacob Moody @ 2022-09-18 17:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

On 9/18/22 10:21, M. Osman Talayman wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have begun reading the code for P9 and am wondering if this is the
> list to use for questions concerning the code I don't understand
> (which is probably going to be most of it)?
> 
> I work as a systems developer (D365FO). I have never coded in C and
> never read kernel code before, so my questions will be simplistic for
> many of you. (hopefully you will have the patiens to answer my
> question)
> 
Have you used the system? Read through the documentation? If you
just sat down and started by reading the code first and trying to
make sense of it with no C background, of course most of it is not
going to make sense.

Learn C first. Doing that while using 9front as a development
environment sounds quite pleasant. But you need to start somewhere
and learn things before just asking someone to walk you through
how the C works out. Go read K&R, write the practice problems on
9front if you want, take a walk through our C libraries, read their
implementations, try using them. In the process you'll pick up
concepts about the system. In general just become acquainted with
our tools and broad concepts, before trying to figure out how
the sausage is made.

Just ask the questions as you have them, don't ask for permission
to ask questions.


Good luck,
moody


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code
  2022-09-18 17:59 ` Jacob Moody
@ 2022-09-18 18:20   ` M. Osman Talayman
  2022-09-18 18:50     ` Jacob Moody
  2022-09-19  7:25     ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: M. Osman Talayman @ 2022-09-18 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Thanks Moody,

I have read documentation from the P9 Legacy website, the cat-v
website as well as man pages etc. I am by no means an expert, but I
think I understand the conceps of the system. I figured, that I would
begin reading throught he kernel code and figure out C as I went
along. The questions I have right now is not so much relating to C per
se, but more about the implementation.

However, you are right. It all starts with the language, the compiler
and the libraries that come along with it. I will start with the K&R
book, which I have.

Thanks again
/Osman

Den søn. 18. sep. 2022 kl. 20.03 skrev Jacob Moody <moody@mail.posixcafe.org>:
>
> On 9/18/22 10:21, M. Osman Talayman wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have begun reading the code for P9 and am wondering if this is the
> > list to use for questions concerning the code I don't understand
> > (which is probably going to be most of it)?
> >
> > I work as a systems developer (D365FO). I have never coded in C and
> > never read kernel code before, so my questions will be simplistic for
> > many of you. (hopefully you will have the patiens to answer my
> > question)
> >
> Have you used the system? Read through the documentation? If you
> just sat down and started by reading the code first and trying to
> make sense of it with no C background, of course most of it is not
> going to make sense.
>
> Learn C first. Doing that while using 9front as a development
> environment sounds quite pleasant. But you need to start somewhere
> and learn things before just asking someone to walk you through
> how the C works out. Go read K&R, write the practice problems on
> 9front if you want, take a walk through our C libraries, read their
> implementations, try using them. In the process you'll pick up
> concepts about the system. In general just become acquainted with
> our tools and broad concepts, before trying to figure out how
> the sausage is made.
>
> Just ask the questions as you have them, don't ask for permission
> to ask questions.
>
>
> Good luck,
> moody
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code
  2022-09-18 18:20   ` M. Osman Talayman
@ 2022-09-18 18:50     ` Jacob Moody
  2022-09-19  7:25     ` sirjofri
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jacob Moody @ 2022-09-18 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

On 9/18/22 12:20, M. Osman Talayman wrote:
> Thanks Moody,
> 
> I have read documentation from the P9 Legacy website, the cat-v
> website as well as man pages etc. I am by no means an expert, but I
> think I understand the conceps of the system. I figured, that I would
> begin reading throught he kernel code and figure out C as I went
> along. The questions I have right now is not so much relating to C per
> se, but more about the implementation.
> 
> However, you are right. It all starts with the language, the compiler
> and the libraries that come along with it. I will start with the K&R
> book, which I have.

See you already knew exactly how to learn about the system. You're fine,
just stop beating around the bush and send your questions :). It was hard
to decipher if you knew these things from your first mail.

> 
> Thanks again
> /Osman
> 
> Den søn. 18. sep. 2022 kl. 20.03 skrev Jacob Moody <moody@mail.posixcafe.org>:
>>
>> On 9/18/22 10:21, M. Osman Talayman wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have begun reading the code for P9 and am wondering if this is the
>>> list to use for questions concerning the code I don't understand
>>> (which is probably going to be most of it)?
>>>
>>> I work as a systems developer (D365FO). I have never coded in C and
>>> never read kernel code before, so my questions will be simplistic for
>>> many of you. (hopefully you will have the patiens to answer my
>>> question)
>>>
>> Have you used the system? Read through the documentation? If you
>> just sat down and started by reading the code first and trying to
>> make sense of it with no C background, of course most of it is not
>> going to make sense.
>>
>> Learn C first. Doing that while using 9front as a development
>> environment sounds quite pleasant. But you need to start somewhere
>> and learn things before just asking someone to walk you through
>> how the C works out. Go read K&R, write the practice problems on
>> 9front if you want, take a walk through our C libraries, read their
>> implementations, try using them. In the process you'll pick up
>> concepts about the system. In general just become acquainted with
>> our tools and broad concepts, before trying to figure out how
>> the sausage is made.
>>
>> Just ask the questions as you have them, don't ask for permission
>> to ask questions.
>>
>>
>> Good luck,
>> moody
>>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code
  2022-09-18 18:20   ` M. Osman Talayman
  2022-09-18 18:50     ` Jacob Moody
@ 2022-09-19  7:25     ` sirjofri
  2022-09-19  9:14       ` M. Osman Talayman
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2022-09-19  7:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Also my recommendation: Don't just "learn how the system works" but also "learn how to work with the system". Especially with plan 9 there's a huge difference.

My learning experience was, 2 years learning the concepts by reading papers, documentation, man pages, basically everything I could find, but never really using the system. Then I started Plan 9 and everything was quite different. I had to reread many things, relearn many things and ask many question (while a chat platform like gridchat is much easier than email).

Today, Plan 9 is my main platform, but only because I really learned how to use it (intuitively, not theoretically).

Have fun on your journey.

sirjofri

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code
  2022-09-19  7:25     ` sirjofri
@ 2022-09-19  9:14       ` M. Osman Talayman
  2022-09-19  9:51         ` hiro
  2022-09-19 14:41         ` Jacob Moody
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: M. Osman Talayman @ 2022-09-19  9:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Thanks sirjofri,
I have taken a step back since yesterdays conversation with Jacob. I'm
now going through K&R and working the exercises. At some point, I will
look into some of the libraries that come with the P9 C
implementation.

I will also take your advice and, at some point, try to set up a P9
system consisting of an auth server (factotum), a couple of file
servers (using both fossil and venti) and a cpu server. I will use
RaspberryPis for this, or maybe do it using virtual machines.

If anyone knows of books or papers that are not on the P9 legacy or
Cat-v sites, that would be useful to me, please let me know.

Thanks
/Osman

Den man. 19. sep. 2022 kl. 09.28 skrev sirjofri
<sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de>:
>
> Also my recommendation: Don't just "learn how the system works" but also "learn how to work with the system". Especially with plan 9 there's a huge difference.
>
> My learning experience was, 2 years learning the concepts by reading papers, documentation, man pages, basically everything I could find, but never really using the system. Then I started Plan 9 and everything was quite different. I had to reread many things, relearn many things and ask many question (while a chat platform like gridchat is much easier than email).
>
> Today, Plan 9 is my main platform, but only because I really learned how to use it (intuitively, not theoretically).
>
> Have fun on your journey.
>
> sirjofri

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code
  2022-09-19  9:14       ` M. Osman Talayman
@ 2022-09-19  9:51         ` hiro
  2022-09-19 14:41         ` Jacob Moody
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2022-09-19  9:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

just do the K&R exercises on p9 :)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code
  2022-09-19  9:14       ` M. Osman Talayman
  2022-09-19  9:51         ` hiro
@ 2022-09-19 14:41         ` Jacob Moody
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jacob Moody @ 2022-09-19 14:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

On 9/19/22 03:14, M. Osman Talayman wrote:
> Thanks sirjofri,
> I have taken a step back since yesterdays conversation with Jacob. I'm
> now going through K&R and working the exercises. At some point, I will
> look into some of the libraries that come with the P9 C
> implementation.
> 
> I will also take your advice and, at some point, try to set up a P9
> system consisting of an auth server (factotum), a couple of file
> servers (using both fossil and venti) and a cpu server. I will use
> RaspberryPis for this, or maybe do it using virtual machines.
> 

Factotum is not what makes an auth server an auth server, that's
authsrv and keyfs. Factotum is just the authentication agent.
Also unless you are looking for specifically some of the features
given by a fossil/venti system it is better to use cwfs/hjfs, less
moving parts at first. Also I recommend virtual machines over pis,
just personally.

> If anyone knows of books or papers that are not on the P9 legacy or
> Cat-v sites, that would be useful to me, please let me know.
> 
> Thanks
> /Osman
> 
> Den man. 19. sep. 2022 kl. 09.28 skrev sirjofri
> <sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de>:
>>
>> Also my recommendation: Don't just "learn how the system works" but also "learn how to work with the system". Especially with plan 9 there's a huge difference.
>>
>> My learning experience was, 2 years learning the concepts by reading papers, documentation, man pages, basically everything I could find, but never really using the system. Then I started Plan 9 and everything was quite different. I had to reread many things, relearn many things and ask many question (while a chat platform like gridchat is much easier than email).
>>
>> Today, Plan 9 is my main platform, but only because I really learned how to use it (intuitively, not theoretically).
>>
>> Have fun on your journey.
>>
>> sirjofri


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-09-19 14:45 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-09-18 16:21 [9front] Questions about the P9 kernel code M. Osman Talayman
2022-09-18 17:59 ` Jacob Moody
2022-09-18 18:20   ` M. Osman Talayman
2022-09-18 18:50     ` Jacob Moody
2022-09-19  7:25     ` sirjofri
2022-09-19  9:14       ` M. Osman Talayman
2022-09-19  9:51         ` hiro
2022-09-19 14:41         ` Jacob Moody

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