Re: package manager? seriously?

[cinap_lenrek <cinap_lenrek@gmx.de>]

i completly agree with this!

i'm not a fan of package managers... compiling and installing native
stuff in plan9 is very easy... you untar a file somewhere, run mk
install
and its done... after this procedure, you know exactly what files
where
installed/changed and the process is transparent and not hidden in
replica logs and shell scripts...

but the image changes when you consider ape ports... these *have*
dependencies and unfortunatly are not self contained :-(

maybe we just add the stuff in the 9front distribution then?

--
cinap

On Apr 4, 3:16 am, Ethan Grammatikidis <eeke...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Ugh. I'm tired, I've been writing and doing stuff far too much this  
> past week, and then people start bringing up "what's going to be  
> 9front's package manager" as if it were some kind of fait accompli,  
> and instantly talking about "how are we going to have the package  
> manager deal with config files?"
>
> I think martian67 helped me organize my thoughts best when he said  
> "packages enforce a certain structure on things." ... I don't if this  
> will come across in text but what I really wanted to reply to that is  
> "Oh! OH!! Ohhh yeeesss, let's ENFORCE STRUCTURE!!! STRUCTURE is  
> GOOOOOOOD! Must have STRUCTURE!"
>
> Plan 9's design is extremely good at making structure work in good,  
> useful, non-limiting ways. What's the system which makes the most use  
> of package management today? Gnu/Linux. What's the one system which  
> employs structure in the very worst way possible throughout? Gnu/Linux.
>
> Package managers are a big part of the disease. Dependency tracking  
> helps create the longest and most brittle dependency chains. Config  
> file management isn't management at all. Either you are managing the  
> config files on your system or something else is, which way is it  
> going to go?
>
> Another big argument is package managers somehow stop things making a  
> mess all over your system. Er, no, they provide a way for people to  
> patch random shit to fit an arbitrary structure... Is "random shit"  
> even remotely relevant in the context of 9front? For fuck's sake how  
> much bullshit are we going to pile on this OS anyway? Without, you  
> know, making it fit the OS first? Good grief people, THINK already.
>
> Finally... "ohmigosh but the ONLY way you can possibly uninstall  
> cleanly is with a package manager" argument, to which I will reply  
> with two words: make uninstall. Plan 9 mkfiles  already have all the  
> files they install listed, it shouldn't be hard to put an uninstall  
> target in the files every mkfile sources. This isn't random bullshit  
> made to work with crappy implementations of make, this is something  
> for which we can make an uninstall target work already.
>
> For those STILL in fucking lust with package managers, will you  
> PLEASE stop thinking of 9front as a suitable platform for megalithic  
> dinosaurian monstrosities?