[9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[sl]

umbraticus provided instructions long ago:

	http://plan9.stanleylieber.com/troff/fonts.txt

i've been using garamond in my books for years to good effect.  a
while back we replaced /lib/1oct1993, which used to be a single text
file, with /lib/1oct1993/, which is now a directory full of the troff
files needed to build the print version of the book.  complaints have
justifiably arisen that the build of these files is broken, because my
stuff relies on the presence of the garamond font.

these are the files affected:

	; cd /sys/lib
	; git/diff -u `{pwd}
	M ghostscript/font/Fontmap
	M postscript/font/fontmap
	U postscript/font/useradded/ugmm8a.pfb
	U postscript/font/useradded/ugmmi8a.pfb
	U postscript/font/useradded/ugmr8a.pfb
	U postscript/font/useradded/ugmri8a.pfb
	U postscript/troff/GA
	U postscript/troff/GI
	U postscript/troff/GM
	U postscript/troff/GMI
	U troff/font/devutf/GA
	U troff/font/devutf/GI
	U troff/font/devutf/GM
	U troff/font/devutf/GMI

any objections?

sl

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[ori]

Quoth sl@stanleylieber.com:
> umbraticus provided instructions long ago:
> 
> 	http://plan9.stanleylieber.com/troff/fonts.txt
> 
> i've been using garamond in my books for years to good effect.  a
> while back we replaced /lib/1oct1993, which used to be a single text
> file, with /lib/1oct1993/, which is now a directory full of the troff
> files needed to build the print version of the book.  complaints have
> justifiably arisen that the build of these files is broken, because my
> stuff relies on the presence of the garamond font.
> 
> these are the files affected:
> 
> 	; cd /sys/lib
> 	; git/diff -u `{pwd}
> 	M ghostscript/font/Fontmap
> 	M postscript/font/fontmap
> 	U postscript/font/useradded/ugmm8a.pfb
> 	U postscript/font/useradded/ugmmi8a.pfb
> 	U postscript/font/useradded/ugmr8a.pfb
> 	U postscript/font/useradded/ugmri8a.pfb
> 	U postscript/troff/GA
> 	U postscript/troff/GI
> 	U postscript/troff/GM
> 	U postscript/troff/GMI
> 	U troff/font/devutf/GA
> 	U troff/font/devutf/GI
> 	U troff/font/devutf/GM
> 	U troff/font/devutf/GMI
> 
> any objections?
> 
> sl

two questions: how big is the font, and are there any concerns
around licensing? other than that, seems fine to me.

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[sl]

> two questions: how big is the font, 

	; du -h /sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/*
	71k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmm8a.pfb
	67k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmmi8a.pfb
	69k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmr8a.pfb
	66k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmri8a.pfb


> and are there any concerns
> around licensing? other than that, seems fine to me.

this is urw garamond no. 8, which is distributed under the aladdin
free public license, which we already have in the tree at
/lib/legal/afpl.

sl

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Blue-Maned_Hawk]

How much does anybody _really_ need Slightly Superficially Different 
Roman Serif Font Number Eighty Quadrillion?

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[qwx]

On Wed Apr  2 21:34:12 +0200 2025, sl@stanleylieber.com wrote:
> > two questions: how big is the font, 
> 
> 	; du -h /sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/*
> 	71k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmm8a.pfb
> 	67k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmmi8a.pfb
> 	69k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmr8a.pfb
> 	66k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmri8a.pfb
> 
> 
> > and are there any concerns
> > around licensing? other than that, seems fine to me.
> 
> this is urw garamond no. 8, which is distributed under the aladdin
> free public license, which we already have in the tree at
> /lib/legal/afpl.
> 
> sl

fwiw looks good to me, I think we should add them, not forgetting
to update /lib/legal/NOTICE.

Thanks,
qwx

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Noah Christopher]

You’d be surprised (not me)

> On Apr 4, 2025, at 3:57 PM, Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> How much does anybody _really_ need Slightly Superficially Different Roman Serif Font Number Eighty Quadrillion?

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Dave Woodman]

Strangely, it seems to be quite popular in print editions of books, 
which is exactly the purpose for which the inclusion was proposed.

Is it _required_? No.
Would it be sensible? As I see it, this is the same as the question "do 
we want to use the book source as is?"
My answer would be that it's a small update for a popular font, so it's 
a 'yes' as far as I am concerned.

Dave.

On 04/04/2025 21:57, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
> How much does anybody _really_ need Slightly Superficially Different 
> Roman Serif Font Number Eighty Quadrillion?
>

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)]

On 04/04/2025 21:57, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
> How much does anybody _really_ need Slightly Superficially Different 
> Roman Serif Font Number Eighty Quadrillion?

When you read a textbook, any technical documentation, or a published
research paper, odds are there are close to a dozen different fonts
in use.  These font variations provide clues to your brain that
help it understand the organization of the material, and to highlight
or differentiate specific sequences of text.  The fact that these
don't consciously register themselves as you read is a testament
to the skills of the person(s) who designed that document.

So when you ask "why do I need all those fonts," the answer is
"to do my job."

In my personal collection I have over two dozen different font
*families*.  And within each family there can be many variations
on the typeface (bold, italic, medium, display, titling, small
caps, ...)  When you take those into account, the total number of
potential font positions I can mount in troff likely numbers into
the hundreds.

--lyndon

[9front] Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Ori Bernstein]

Ship it.

On April 2, 2025 3:31:28 PM EDT, sl@stanleylieber.com wrote:
>> two questions: how big is the font, 
>
>	; du -h /sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/*
>	71k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmm8a.pfb
>	67k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmmi8a.pfb
>	69k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmr8a.pfb
>	66k	/sys/lib/postscript/font/useradded/ugmri8a.pfb
>
>
>> and are there any concerns
>> around licensing? other than that, seems fine to me.
>
>this is urw garamond no. 8, which is distributed under the aladdin
>free public license, which we already have in the tree at
>/lib/legal/afpl.
>
>sl

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Blue-Maned_Hawk]

On 4/5/25 12:56 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) wrote:
> On 04/04/2025 21:57, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>> How much does anybody _really_ need Slightly Superficially Different
>> Roman Serif Font Number Eighty Quadrillion?
> 
> When you read a textbook, any technical documentation, or a published
> research paper, odds are there are close to a dozen different fonts
> in use.  These font variations provide clues to your brain that
> help it understand the organization of the material, and to highlight
> or differentiate specific sequences of text.  The fact that these
> don't consciously register themselves as you read is a testament
> to the skills of the person(s) who designed that document.

What evidence do you have that this is happening to me?

> So when you ask "why do I need all those fonts," the answer is
> "to do my job."
> 
> In my personal collection I have over two dozen different font
> *families*.  And within each family there can be many variations
> on the typeface (bold, italic, medium, display, titling, small
> caps, ...)  When you take those into account, the total number of
> potential font positions I can mount in troff likely numbers into
> the hundreds.
> 
> --lyndon

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Kurt H Maier]

On Sun, Apr 06, 2025 at 12:14:43AM -0400, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
> 
> What evidence do you have that this is happening to me?
> 

Hi,

get lost nerd

Regards,
khm

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Blue-Maned_Hawk]

On 4/6/25 12:16 AM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 06, 2025 at 12:14:43AM -0400, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>>
>> What evidence do you have that this is happening to me?
>>
> 
> Hi,
> 
> get lost nerd
> 
> Regards,
> khm

The constant internet access that one is afforded in the modern day 
makes getting lost exceptionally more difficult due to exceedingly easy 
access to maps of all of the world, seeing as getting lost is, by 
definition, an accidental action.  If you wish for me to get lost, 
you're going to need to pay out of your own pocket for my rocket ticket 
to a distant, uncharted planet.

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Thaddeus Woskowiak]

On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 12:15 AM Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 4/5/25 12:56 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) wrote:
> > On 04/04/2025 21:57, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
> >> How much does anybody _really_ need Slightly Superficially Different
> >> Roman Serif Font Number Eighty Quadrillion?
> >
> > When you read a textbook, any technical documentation, or a published
> > research paper, odds are there are close to a dozen different fonts
> > in use.  These font variations provide clues to your brain that
> > help it understand the organization of the material, and to highlight
> > or differentiate specific sequences of text.  The fact that these
> > don't consciously register themselves as you read is a testament
> > to the skills of the person(s) who designed that document.
>
> What evidence do you have that this is happening to me?
>
> > So when you ask "why do I need all those fonts," the answer is
> > "to do my job."
> >
> > In my personal collection I have over two dozen different font
> > *families*.  And within each family there can be many variations
> > on the typeface (bold, italic, medium, display, titling, small
> > caps, ...)  When you take those into account, the total number of
> > potential font positions I can mount in troff likely numbers into
> > the hundreds.
> >
> > --lyndon
>

Please do not engage in fontshedding. Thank you.

The more fonts the merrier.

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)]

Blue-Maned_Hawk writes:

> What evidence do you have that this is happening to me?

None.  I have no evidence that anything is registering with you.

--lyndon

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Blue-Maned_Hawk]

On 4/6/25 9:36 AM, Thaddeus Woskowiak wrote:
> <snip/>
> 
> Please do not engage in fontshedding. Thank you.
> 
> The more fonts the merrier.

On the contrary, i'd say that the more fonts, the more space taken up; 
when that uptookened space doesn't have any meaningful difference from 
existing space, i wouldn't call that merry.

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Blue-Maned_Hawk]

On 4/6/25 1:59 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) wrote:
> Blue-Maned_Hawk writes:
> 
>> What evidence do you have that this is happening to me?
> 
> None.  I have no evidence that anything is registering with you.
> 
> --lyndon

Then your statement does not work to support any claims that another 
slightly-superficially-different roman serif font is necessary.

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[B. Atticus Grobe]

On Sun Apr 6, 2025 at 12:59 PM CDT, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) wrote:
> Blue-Maned_Hawk writes:
>
>> What evidence do you have that this is happening to me?
>
> None.  I have no evidence that anything is registering with you.
>
> --lyndon

To those not yet aware, Blue-Maned_Hawk is a known troll hailing from #cat-v. As
is standard practice in most zoos, please don't feed the trolls.

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Michael Misch]

can you stop downing the list with asinine crap dude.

Michael Misch

> On Apr 6, 2025, at 11:25, Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 4/6/25 9:36 AM, Thaddeus Woskowiak wrote:
>> <snip/>
>> Please do not engage in fontshedding. Thank you.
>> The more fonts the merrier.
> 
> On the contrary, i'd say that the more fonts, the more space taken up; when that uptookened space doesn't have any meaningful difference from existing space, i wouldn't call that merry.

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Blue-Maned_Hawk]

On 4/6/25 2:35 PM, B. Atticus Grobe wrote:
> On Sun Apr 6, 2025 at 12:59 PM CDT, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) wrote:
>> Blue-Maned_Hawk writes:
>>
>>> What evidence do you have that this is happening to me?
>>
>> None.  I have no evidence that anything is registering with you.
>>
>> --lyndon
> 
> To those not yet aware, Blue-Maned_Hawk is a known troll hailing from #cat-v. As
> is standard practice in most zoos, please don't feed the trolls.

What evidence do you have to show that i am a troll?  I have made no 
claims of myself being so; as far as i know, that would be the only way 
to prove that i'm a troll instead of just, say, daft in good faith.

Re: [9front] proposal: add garamond font to troff/ghostscript/postscript

[Blue-Maned_Hawk]

On 4/6/25 5:57 PM, Michael Misch wrote:
> can you stop downing the list with asinine crap dude.

I have no intention to do any such thing; what have i done that is so?