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From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Book Recommendation
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 14:39:19 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAC20D2OVvp2XcJ-uH32uSBRDEDi=wzWfiB9T-=c1dHG3XOWJ8w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20211124184040.GS3889@mcvoy.com>

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On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 1:43 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:

> SMIT - just say no.

There were a number of things IBM did well with AIX so I'm not quite so
glib knocking everything from them.

But I agree that SMIT was the not so well thought out piece and never fully
understood why it ended up being such a bad example of systems SW. ... but
 .... I always suspected that SMIT was an example of what IT managers
running mainframe thought of UNIX.  The folks at IBM set out (and did) a
thorough and well thought out requirements study IBM style ... and then ...
they only talked to Mainframe IT folks, not people that actually had
experience in running UNIX in a production setting from their (like on a
BSD or Ultrix based Vax or SunOS - i.e. instead of talking to the folks
that came to a USENIX LISA, they talked to customers that came to a SHARE
meeting).  So they solved the wrong set of problems.  SMIT was a force fit
of UNIX to mainframe shop and never was quite right for either group.  I'm
not sure the IT folks really liked it much better than the UNIX folks, but
at least for them it used their terminology and their concepts (*e.g.* DASD
*vs.* DISK).

BTW:  HP, I thought had a similar issue and they did not really understand
the UNIX user.   DEC parts of so got it/parts did not.  Many DECies wanted
Ultrix == VMS (and really wanted Unix to go away since VMS and RXS were
really better in their hearts), but at least there were a ton of folks
inside of DEC doing the Unix work that 'got it.'

As I have said before, it was always interesting having all of them as
customers at LCC.  You got to see the good and bad of all the systems
vendors.

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  reply	other threads:[~2021-11-24 19:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-11-16 14:57 Douglas McIlroy
2021-11-16 15:22 ` Richard Salz
2021-11-16 15:53   ` [COFF] " Adam Thornton
2021-11-16 15:52 ` Ron Natalie
2021-11-16 18:54 ` [COFF] Joys of PL/I [Was: Re: [TUHS] Book Recommendation] Nemo Nusquam
2021-11-16 19:40   ` Charles H Sauer
2021-11-16 20:20   ` Bakul Shah
2021-11-23  2:28 ` [TUHS] Book Recommendation Mary Ann Horton
2021-11-23  7:57   ` Henry Bent
2021-11-23  8:10     ` arnold
2021-11-23  8:28       ` Henry Bent
2021-11-23 15:23     ` [COFF] " Clem Cole
2021-11-24  0:38       ` [COFF] Self-hosting languages (was: Book Recommendation) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2021-11-24  1:48         ` Brantley Coile
2021-11-23 17:26     ` [TUHS] Book Recommendation Adam Thornton
2021-11-23 18:54       ` Ron Natalie
2021-11-23 19:04         ` Al Kossow
2021-11-23 19:39           ` Lawrence Stewart
2021-11-23 19:08       ` Ron Natalie
2021-11-23 19:40     ` [COFF] " Dan Cross
2021-11-24  1:57     ` [COFF] PL/1 [Was: Re: [TUHS] Book Recommendation] Nemo Nusquam
2021-11-23 21:54   ` [TUHS] Book Recommendation Thomas Paulsen
2021-11-24 15:18     ` Richard Salz
2021-11-24 15:45       ` Larry McVoy
2021-11-24 18:34       ` Rich Morin
2021-11-24 18:40         ` Larry McVoy
2021-11-24 19:39           ` Clem Cole [this message]
2021-11-24 20:02             ` Larry McVoy
2021-11-26 19:49               ` [TUHS] AIX/SMIT (was Book Recommendation) Greg A. Woods
2021-11-25 10:26           ` [TUHS] Book Recommendation Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS
2021-11-25 12:20             ` [TUHS] AIX/SMIT (was Re: Book Recommendation) Stuart Remphrey
2021-11-24 20:13       ` [TUHS] Book Recommendation arnold
2021-11-24 20:18         ` Will Senn
2021-11-25  7:22         ` arnold
2021-11-24 20:15       ` Rob Pike
2021-11-24 20:21         ` joe mcguckin
2021-11-24 20:27         ` Rob Pike
2021-11-24 21:27           ` Richard Salz
2021-11-24 22:19       ` Charles Anthony
2021-11-24 22:29         ` [TUHS] PL/I stuff - was: " Will Senn
2021-11-24 23:00           ` Rob Pike
2021-11-24 23:13             ` Richard Salz
2021-11-25  1:48           ` Nelson H. F. Beebe
2021-11-25  2:03             ` George Michaelson
2021-11-25 14:47               ` Clem Cole
2021-11-26 22:20                 ` Alan Glasser
2021-11-26 22:33               ` Alan Glasser
2021-11-27  0:23               ` Dennis Boone
2021-11-27  0:30                 ` Larry McVoy
2021-11-27  0:47                   ` Charles H. Sauer
2021-11-27  2:43                     ` Alan Glasser
2021-11-27  0:56                   ` Warner Losh
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-12-03  2:50 [TUHS] " Douglas McIlroy
2021-12-06  4:25 ` Adam Thornton
2021-12-06  4:42   ` Dan Halbert
2021-12-06  5:18     ` Charles H. Sauer
2021-11-24 15:50 Norman Wilson
2021-11-16 19:49 Douglas McIlroy
2021-11-16 20:02 ` Dan Cross
2021-11-16 23:16   ` Douglas McIlroy
2021-11-16 17:00 Douglas McIlroy
     [not found] ` <CAKH6PiXinxBQGRqoeGMcG9CwTA5BNeU-LY164f-ZLYA4obsyuA@mail.g mail.com>
2021-11-16 18:47   ` John Foust via TUHS
2021-11-16 20:35 ` Bakul Shah
2021-12-02 21:35 ` Duncan Mak
2021-12-02 22:32   ` Bakul Shah
2021-12-02 22:34   ` Rob Pike
2021-11-16  3:16 Douglas McIlroy
2021-11-16  4:08 ` G. Branden Robinson
2021-11-16 14:56   ` Clem Cole
2021-11-16 15:37     ` Richard Salz
2021-11-16 15:50       ` Adam Thornton
2021-11-16 17:02     ` Will Senn
2021-11-16 21:38       ` John Cowan
2021-11-16 21:46         ` Will Senn
2021-11-16 18:27     ` Jon Steinhart
2021-11-16 18:44       ` Heinz Lycklama
2021-11-14 14:37 Clem Cole
2021-11-14 14:55 ` Dennis Boone
2021-11-14 16:35   ` Ralph Corderoy
2021-11-14 18:20     ` Larry McVoy
2021-11-14 18:44     ` Clem Cole
2021-11-14 18:52       ` Ralph Corderoy
2021-11-14 19:27         ` Clem Cole
2021-11-15  9:49           ` Ralph Corderoy

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