Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Robert Pickering]

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		Depends what one means by "real operating" systems. But yes it will run under linux using mono, I believe people have tried it on OS X too and it didn't work but this was due to a fault in Mono's implemenation of tail call. A bug report has been filed with the mono team so a fix should be forth coming.

The source of the implementation is available, but the license is not, for the moment, open source.

Cheers,
Rob

----------------------------------------

				From: Richard Jones <rich@annexia.org>
Sent: 18 April 2007 02:05
To: Jon Harrop <jon@ffconsultancy.com>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:06:38PM +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
> 
> Flying Frog Consultancy just started the F#.NET Journal, an on-line 
> publication composed of articles, example source code and tutorial videos 
> aimed at beginner programmers learning the F# programming language from 
> Microsoft Research:
[...]

Does F# run on real operating systems? Does it have a full open
source stack?

(Genuine questions - you seem to be saying a lot of good things about
F#).

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

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Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Jon Harrop]

On Wednesday 18 April 2007 10:32, Robert Pickering wrote:
> 		Depends what one means by "real operating" systems. But yes it will run
> under linux using mono,

From a recent benchmark I did, Mono is very, very slow. I've no idea what 
they're doing wrong but I was seeing 10-30x slower than .NET.

So if you're interested in performance, I recommend writing code in the 
intersection of OCaml and F#. That can be tricky though, because operator 
overloading is just so damn nice. ;-)

-- 
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?e

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Gilles FALCON]

Hello,

F# comes with a nice IDE,  I think  another IDE (as eclipse for ie) 
could help people to come to ocaml.
Ocaml tools with Emacs are nice for strong programmer.

Just my two cents.

Gilles

Brian Hurt a écrit :
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Richard Jones wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:06:38PM +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
>>>
>>> Flying Frog Consultancy just started the F#.NET Journal, an on-line
>>> publication composed of articles, example source code and tutorial 
>>> videos
>>> aimed at beginner programmers learning the F# programming language from
>>> Microsoft Research:
>> [...]
>>
>> Does F# run on real operating systems?  Does it have a full open
>> source stack?
>
> Overall, I see F# as a good thing for Ocaml.  OK, it draws some of 
> it's support from the Ocaml community (John Harrop here being an 
> obvious example)- thus dilluting the pool of energy from Ocaml, at 
> least in the short term.  But any F# programmer can pick up Ocaml in 
> short order, and vice versa (not unlike the C#/Java communities).
>
> But I think were F# will really draw it's people from is outside the 
> community.  It'll draw from the vast horde of C#/VB/C++ Windows 
> programmers.  Draw people from outside the community to inside the 
> community.  And sooner or later many of them are going to start 
> looking for an F# that runs on Linux/Unix.
>
> Even if I'm wrong, even if F# is a net loss for Ocaml, I still can't 
> help viewing F# as a good thing over all.  Anything which helps 
> programmers write code that doesn't *SUCK* is an advantage to us all- 
> and every programmer coding in F# is a programmer not coding in C#, 
> VB, or, God help us, C++.  Making code proven free of large classes of 
> bugs, and many other bugs rare indeed is a definate good.  And 
> bluntly, most software- free software as well as proprietary, sucks 
> large rocks through very small pipettes.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management:
> http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list
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> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[skaller]

On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 18:57 -0400, Brian Hurt wrote:

> Overall, I see F# as a good thing for Ocaml.  OK, it draws some of it's 
> support from the Ocaml community (John Harrop here being an obvious 
> example)- thus dilluting the pool of energy from Ocaml, at least in the 
> short term. 

That's a product of INRIA's Cathedral. There's a door on the
Church where I can pin bug reports.

>  But any F# programmer can pick up Ocaml in short order, and 
> vice versa (not unlike the C#/Java communities).

>From a software engineering viewpoint all we have
is a superficial resemblance. 

-- 
John Skaller <skaller at users dot sf dot net>
Felix, successor to C++: http://felix.sf.net

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Brian Hurt]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Richard Jones wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:06:38PM +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
>>
>> Flying Frog Consultancy just started the F#.NET Journal, an on-line
>> publication composed of articles, example source code and tutorial videos
>> aimed at beginner programmers learning the F# programming language from
>> Microsoft Research:
> [...]
>
> Does F# run on real operating systems?  Does it have a full open
> source stack?

Overall, I see F# as a good thing for Ocaml.  OK, it draws some of it's 
support from the Ocaml community (John Harrop here being an obvious 
example)- thus dilluting the pool of energy from Ocaml, at least in the 
short term.  But any F# programmer can pick up Ocaml in short order, and 
vice versa (not unlike the C#/Java communities).

But I think were F# will really draw it's people from is outside the 
community.  It'll draw from the vast horde of C#/VB/C++ Windows 
programmers.  Draw people from outside the community to inside the 
community.  And sooner or later many of them are going to start looking 
for an F# that runs on Linux/Unix.

Even if I'm wrong, even if F# is a net loss for Ocaml, I still can't help 
viewing F# as a good thing over all.  Anything which helps programmers 
write code that doesn't *SUCK* is an advantage to us all- and every 
programmer coding in F# is a programmer not coding in C#, VB, or, God help 
us, C++.  Making code proven free of large classes of bugs, and many other 
bugs rare indeed is a definate good.  And bluntly, most software- free 
software as well as proprietary, sucks large rocks through very small 
pipettes.

Just my two cents.

Brian

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Richard Jones]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:06:38PM +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
> 
> Flying Frog Consultancy just started the F#.NET Journal, an on-line 
> publication composed of articles, example source code and tutorial videos 
> aimed at beginner programmers learning the F# programming language from 
> Microsoft Research:
[...]

Does F# run on real operating systems?  Does it have a full open
source stack?

(Genuine questions - you seem to be saying a lot of good things about
F#).

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat