From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id SAA23535; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:40:14 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23538 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:40:13 +0100 (MET) Received: from chruser.svc.tds.net (chruser.svc.tds.net [204.246.1.38]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.10.0) with ESMTP id fA8HeCv18479 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:40:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from h192-168-1-103.dedicated.tds.net ([216.170.128.65]) by chruser.svc.tds.net with ESMTP id <20011108174011.OYXF29403.chruser@h192-168-1-103.dedicated.tds.net> for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 11:40:11 -0600 Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Jihad From: Will Benton To: Caml In-Reply-To: <3BE9F75E.FF977720@techscribe.com> References: <3BE9F75E.FF977720@techscribe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Evolution/0.99.1+cvs.2001.11.07.16.47 (Preview Release) Date: 08 Nov 2001 11:39:59 -0600 Message-Id: <1005241202.6632.28.camel@h192-168-1-103.dedicated.tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Eric Newhuis wrote: > I am sincere. The term fits my personal experience with > ObjectiveCaml. It is jihad, i.e. "struggle". I am sorry if others > may take issue with my use of metephor. > > My intentions were never to offend. And I will not retract. This is really a matter of denotation vs. connotation. When Eric says "jihad", he claims he means struggle. This could be bad, as Mark says, because Eric is invoking the image of a zealot with a fixed-point combinator in one hand and a Kalashnikov rifle in the other, which paints FP devotees as fanatics. Or it could be bad because, as Elan says, the word "jihad" has been the motivation and justification for countless murders of innocent people. It doesn't matter. The fact is, in the current world climate, it is irresponsible to use the word "jihad" in conversation with a general audience to refer to anything except what the media means by "jihad" (the fanatical, murdering kind). (I realize that Muslims also use the word "jihad" to mean the daily struggle of faith/etc., but it does not connote that for the vast majority of non-Muslims.) It is an uphill battle at best to convince people that you intend the literal meaning of such a loaded word. If anyone doesn't buy this, I think I can clarify with an example.=20 Let's look at another word that means "struggle"; "Kampf" in German.=20 "Kampf" is especially good because it doesn't have any religious associations that I know of. Would it be acceptable to write a book called "Mein Kampf: A Story of Learning OCaml" and assume that people would know that it was a *just a struggle*? I doubt it. Some words and phrases are far too emotionally loaded and surrounded by alternative meanings to be useful as language. (I am not suggesting that "Kampf" itself is so tainted; "Mein Kampf" probably is.) Eric, good luck in your struggle . wb --=20 Will Benton | "Nicht wie die Welt ist, ist das Mystische,=20 willb@acm.org | sondern da=DF sie ist." --L. Wittgenstein **GnuPG public key: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~willb/pubkey ------------------- Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr