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From: skaller <skaller@users.sourceforge.net>
To: Oliver Bandel <oliver@first.in-berlin.de>
Cc: caml-list <caml-list@inria.fr>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Estimating the size of the ocaml community
Date: 05 Feb 2005 13:04:35 +1100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1107569074.14589.465.camel@pelican.wigram> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20050204161250.GF498@first.in-berlin.de>

On Sat, 2005-02-05 at 03:12, Oliver Bandel wrote:

> > 
> > (a) interfacing to C isn't trivial
> [...]
> 
> Well, compared to Perl, this task IS trivial in OCaml.

But it is very difficult compared to C++, where basically
you can just write

	extern "C" { .. }

or Felix where you bascially just write

	sin: double -> double;

to interface the 'sin' function. In Ocaml, the
Ocaml code is just like that too, but you have to
write wrapper glue (in Felix you don't usually),
and the glue goes in another file and is written
in C not Ocaml.

All of this makes 'trivial' interfacing rather
cumbersome, and 'extensive' interfacing a lot
of work.

So this is a downside whose impact depends on
how much C code you need for your application.

Typically with Ocaml, a lot of C libraries
are a waste of time, since you can do
the same code in Ocaml quite easily.
EG why bother with a lame XML parser library
done for C .. when Ocaml is so good at parsers
anyhow, it is probably easier to write your
own XML parser in Ocaml than bother interfacing
to a C library -- besides which you'd want
to think about making your application much simpler
using (C/X)Duce anyhow .. :)

Nevertheless a large issue in *adopting* a new
language is how to handle migration and with an
existing large code base binding to C is a
real industrial issue. The problem is that
for small apps, where a complete rewrite in
Ocaml makes sense, there's no great incentive
to use a better language. It is only for large
scale applications where the superiority of
strong typing, GC, HOFs etc etc really count
that you'd consider a complete technology
change and it is precisely in those cases that
migration paths do matter. Catch 22 :)


-- 
John Skaller, mailto:skaller@users.sf.net
voice: 061-2-9660-0850, 
snail: PO BOX 401 Glebe NSW 2037 Australia
Checkout the Felix programming language http://felix.sf.net




  reply	other threads:[~2005-02-05  2:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 188+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-02-02 21:31 Yaron Minsky
2005-02-02 21:36 ` [Caml-list] " Christopher A. Watford
2005-02-02 21:54   ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-03  3:58     ` skaller
2005-02-03  6:35       ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2005-02-03 16:29         ` Olivier Pérès
2005-02-03 18:06         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 18:34           ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-03 21:16             ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 21:58               ` Paul Snively
2005-02-03 22:42                 ` Bardur Arantsson
2005-02-03 23:29                   ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 22:33               ` josh
2005-02-03 23:22                 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 23:39                   ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04  9:04                     ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-04  9:37                       ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04 10:11                       ` Olivier Andrieu
2005-02-04 11:14                         ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-04 12:15                           ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04 12:46                             ` Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk
2005-02-04 12:51                             ` Gerd Stolpmann
2005-02-04 13:43                               ` Richard W. M. Jones
2005-02-04 16:01                                 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2005-02-04 16:52                                 ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 17:21                                   ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-04 17:55                                     ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 16:48                               ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 12:15                           ` Olivier Andrieu
2005-02-04 16:42                         ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 10:58                     ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 17:27                       ` Damien Doligez
2005-02-04 17:59                         ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04  1:17                   ` Michael Walter
2005-02-04 10:53                   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 22:01                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-05 12:27                       ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-06  0:08                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 23:29               ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04  2:33               ` Jon Harrop
     [not found]                 ` <877e9a170502031856175260c8@mail.gmail.com>
2005-02-04  2:56                   ` Michael Walter
2005-02-04 10:26                     ` [Caml-list] The boon of static type checking Jon Harrop
2005-02-04 17:02                       ` Damien Doligez
2005-02-04 18:00                         ` Jon Harrop
2005-02-04 20:38                           ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-04 21:42                             ` Jon Harrop
2005-02-04 22:11                               ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-05  0:58                                 ` Jon Harrop
2005-02-05  1:52                                   ` Shivkumar Chandrasekaran
2005-02-07 18:47                                   ` Damien Doligez
2005-02-05  5:24                         ` Jacques Garrigue
2005-02-04 21:52                       ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 22:27                         ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-05 10:00                           ` Remi Vanicat
2005-02-06 11:18                             ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-04 22:55                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-06  0:02                           ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-06  0:56                             ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2005-02-06 10:03                               ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-06  1:34                             ` Richard Jones
2005-02-06  2:30                               ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2005-02-06  9:54                               ` Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk
2005-02-06 10:05                               ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-05 21:48                       ` Michael Walter
2005-02-06 10:22                       ` Radu Grigore
2005-02-06 12:16                         ` Gerd Stolpmann
2005-02-06 14:59                           ` skaller
2005-02-06 22:30                             ` Radu Grigore
2005-02-07  3:15                               ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2005-02-06 17:28                         ` Jon
2005-02-06 22:26                           ` Radu Grigore
2005-02-07  2:51                             ` skaller
2005-02-07  1:54                           ` skaller
2005-02-07  5:34                             ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-07  6:16                               ` Michael Walter
2005-02-07 14:58                                 ` Igor Pechtchanski
2005-02-12 15:22                                 ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-12 16:11                                   ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-12 18:47                                     ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-12 21:58                                       ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-12 17:06                                   ` skaller
2005-02-12 22:57                                   ` Michael Walter
2005-02-13  1:12                                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-13  1:51                                       ` Tony Edgin
2005-02-13  2:12                                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-13 10:26                                           ` Daniel Heck
2005-02-13 18:28                                             ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-13 20:52                                               ` Michael Walter
2005-02-13 21:42                                                 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-13 22:51                                                   ` Michael Walter
2005-02-13 23:59                                                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  0:11                                                       ` Michael Walter
2005-02-14  0:42                                                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  1:11                                                           ` Michael Walter
2005-02-14  1:46                                                             ` Michael Vanier
2005-02-14  1:57                                                               ` Michael Walter
2005-02-14 14:19                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2005-02-14 14:36                                                                 ` [Caml-list] " Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  1:19                                                           ` [Caml-list] " Michael Walter
2005-02-14 17:29                                                           ` Martin Berger
2005-02-14 18:44                                                             ` skaller
2005-02-14 19:17                                                             ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  2:22                                                       ` skaller
2005-02-14  8:04                                                         ` Paul Snively
2005-02-14  9:33                                                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  9:39                                                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  2:10                                                   ` skaller
2005-02-13  2:27                                     ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-13  2:34                                       ` Michael Walter
2005-02-07 10:57                               ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
2005-02-07 16:58                                 ` skaller
2005-02-07 17:24                                   ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
2005-02-07 17:56                                   ` Paul Snively
2005-02-07 17:59                                   ` skaller
2005-02-07 17:30                                 ` skaller
2005-02-07 13:07                               ` Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk
2005-02-12 15:42                                 ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-07 17:42                               ` Ken Rose
2005-02-07  2:23                           ` skaller
2005-02-04  9:29                 ` [Caml-list] Estimating the size of the ocaml community Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 10:26                   ` Andreas Rossberg
2005-02-04 17:54                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 15:43                   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 19:54                   ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-04 20:20                     ` Karl Zilles
2005-02-04 22:07                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04  9:41                 ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04 10:03                   ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 16:00                   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 17:32                     ` sejourne_kevin
2005-02-04 18:46                       ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-05  1:49                     ` skaller
2005-02-04  8:55               ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
2005-02-04  9:36                 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 10:30               ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 22:02                 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-05 13:14                   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-05 16:37                     ` Why can't types and exceptions be nested (was: Re: [Caml-list] Estimating the size of the ocaml community) Richard Jones
2005-02-05 17:04                       ` Basile STARYNKEVITCH
2005-02-05 19:26                       ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-06  2:56                       ` skaller
2005-02-04 21:55             ` [Caml-list] Estimating the size of the ocaml community Basile STARYNKEVITCH
2005-02-03 19:04           ` ronniec95
2005-02-03 20:06           ` skaller
2005-02-03 20:50             ` chris.danx
2005-02-03 21:14               ` Jon Harrop
2005-02-03 21:34                 ` chris.danx
2005-02-03 22:07                   ` Bardur Arantsson
2005-02-03 21:47                 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2005-02-04  3:52               ` skaller
2005-02-04 16:12             ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-05  2:04               ` skaller [this message]
2005-02-03 20:35           ` chris.danx
2005-02-03  8:36     ` sejourne_kevin
2005-02-03  8:39       ` Matthieu Brucher
2005-02-03 16:23       ` Olivier Pérès
2005-02-03 10:10     ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2005-02-03 16:44       ` Vincenzo Ciancia
2005-02-02 22:10 ` [Caml-list] " Kenneth Knowles
2005-02-02 22:40 ` Michael Jeffrey Tucker
2005-02-02 22:52 ` Richard Jones
2005-02-02 23:42 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2005-02-03  6:53 ` Evan Martin
2005-02-03  6:57 ` Eric Stokes
2005-02-03 20:53 ` chris.danx
2005-02-03 23:29 ` Sylvain LE GALL
2005-02-03 23:38 ` sejourne_kevin
2005-02-07  8:49 ` Sven Luther
2005-02-07  9:23 ` Johann Spies
2005-02-03  0:23 Don Syme
2005-02-04 19:36 Ernesto Posse
2005-02-04 23:57 ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-05 13:24   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-05  2:27 ` skaller
2005-02-05  2:55   ` Michael Walter
2005-02-05  3:07   ` Ernesto Posse
2005-02-05 13:31     ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-05 15:26       ` William D.Neumann
2005-02-05 16:41       ` Richard Jones
2005-02-05  4:58   ` Christopher A. Watford
2005-02-05 16:09   ` Martin Willensdorfer
2005-02-05  7:13 ` Kenneth Knowles
2005-02-05 13:39   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-20 12:49 Jon Harrop
2005-02-20 13:56 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-20 16:18 ` Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons
2005-02-21  2:07   ` Jon Harrop
2005-02-21  6:25     ` Erik de Castro Lopo

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