From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 000F1BB9A for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:22:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from pauillac.inria.fr (pauillac.inria.fr [128.93.11.35]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jA6KMONa028157 for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:22:24 +0100 Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA11433 for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:22:23 +0100 (MET) Received: from smtp16.wanadoo.fr (smtp16.wanadoo.fr [193.252.23.89]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jA6KMMOA015386 for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:22:22 +0100 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1602.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 9678B7000087 for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:22:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from wwinf1630 (wwinf1630 [172.22.147.104]) by mwinf1602.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 92E2C7000084 for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:22:22 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20051106202222601.92E2C7000084@mwinf1602.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <12244524.1131308542594.JavaMail.www@wwinf1630> From: Frederic GAVA Reply-To: frederic.gava@wanadoo.fr To: caml-list@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Wikipedia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_63944_17294028.1131308542585" X-Originating-IP: [80.11.143.200] X-Wum-Nature: EMAIL-NATURE X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:22:22 +0100 (CET) X-Miltered: at nez-perce with ID 436E6600.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 436E65FE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.00; gava:01 gava:01 caml-list:01 ocaml's:01 ocaml:01 ocaml:01 caml-list:01 sml:01 haskell:01 freshmeat:01 synchronous:01 uncommon:01 beginner's:01 beginners:01 bug:01 X-Attachments: cset="UTF-8" cset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_NONELEMENT_20_30,RCVD_IN_NJABL_PROXY autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 ------=_Part_63944_17294028.1131308542585 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A little thing that I do not understand. Why the wikipedia page is not writ= ten by the ocaml's team ? An encyclopedia has to been written by "expert" a= nd in the wiki idea with the help and the comments of the communauty... and= a link (just one) to the ffconsultancy.com is not problem is there are man= y other links even it is a firm. But other links to other compagnies should= also added? Why not in the rubric application, a sub-case "firm using ocam= l" (that develop special applications with ocaml). And why, in this page, t= here are so little links to applications in ocaml. For example, the soft ht= tp://www.astree.ens.fr/ which is develop by academics people and using by a= firm ? > Message du 06/11/05 20:39 > De : "Thomas Fischbacher"=20 > A : "Jon Harrop"=20 > Copie =C3=A0 : caml-list@inria.fr > Objet : Re: [Caml-list] Wikipedia >=20 >=20 > On Thu, 3 Nov 2005, Jon Harrop wrote: >=20 > ...and once again, it may be interesting to see a bit more context. >=20 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocaml > >=20 > > The page gets a lot of hits and is, most likely, the first port of call= by=20 > > many people when trying to learn about OCaml. > >=20 > > Unfortunately, the quality of this page is substantially worse than tha= t of=20 > > the equivalent pages on SML, Haskell and so on. I have tried to improve= the=20 > > page myself but most of my links have been removed following complaints= to=20 > > admim by an anonymous, German-speaking, OCaml-using physicist with the = IRC=20 > > nic "tf" and all of my corrections were removed by Mike Lin. My code ex= amples=20 > > remain though. >=20 > On Oct 26, 19:10, I put a note into the "talk" section of the OCaml=20 > wikipedia article, pointing out that it contained an excessively large=20 > amount of links to ffconsultancy.com, which were indeed entered by Jon=20 > Harrop, by now infamous also on Usenet. >=20 > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk:O%27Caml_programming_lan= guage&oldid=3D26550471 >=20 > To give an excerpt from the article as it was at that time: >=20 > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DOcaml&oldid=3D26478312 >=20 > Please note the number of ffconsultancy.com links: >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D> >=20 > Fun: >=20 >=20 Several > href=3D"/wiki/International_Conference_on_Functional_Programming_= Contest"=20 > title=3D"International Conference on Functional Programming=20 > Contest">International Conference on Functional Programming Contest=20 > winners >=20 >=20 A 2D maze=20 > generator >=20 > class=3D'external text' title=3D"http://www.ffconsultancy.com/free/ray=20 > tracer/">A mini ray tracer >=20 > href=3D"http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_for_scientists/visual= isation/"=20 > class=3D'external text' title=3D"http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/oc= aml=20 > for scientists/visualisation/">Graphical examples from a book on OCaml fo= r=20 > scientists >=20 > class=3D'external text'=20 > title=3D"http://handhelds.freshmeat.net/projects/planets/">Gravity=20 > simulator >=20 >=20 > Education: >=20 >=20 > title=3D"http://home.gna.org/geocaml/">Drgeocaml, a dynamic geometry=20 > software >=20 >=20 > Scientific: >=20 >=20 >=20 > href=3D"http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_for_scientists/comple= te/"=20 > class=3D'external text' title=3D"http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/oc= aml=20 > for scientists/complete/">Examples from a book on OCaml for=20 > scientists >=20 >=20 > Commercial: >=20 >=20 > class=3D'external text'=20 > title=3D"http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/presenta">Presenta=20 > technical presentation software >=20 >=20 > Engineering: >=20 >=20 > title=3D"http://www.confluent.org">Confluence is a language for=20 > synchronous reactive system design. A Confluence program can generate=20 > digital logic for an FPGA or ASIC platform, or C code for hard real-time= =20 > software. >=20 >=20 > <=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > This was the state of the article when I put that comment into the=20 > discussion section. I did not re-enter that discussion from then on, so= =20 > when Jon says: >=20 > > I have tried to improve the=20 > > page myself but most of my links have been removed following complaints= to=20 > > admim by (...) tf >=20 > his "improvements" which were removed following my "complaints" can only= =20 > refer to his act of Wikipedia vandalism (as I would call it), putting=20 > excessive link spam (see above) into the article. >=20 >=20 > Let's face it: if one takes Google rank as a a rough first measure of=20 > relevance (in the sense of "how much do people talk about it") in the=20 > non-academic world, in a search for "OCaml", none of Jon's material=20 > (despite all his efforts) is in the top 10 (note: google searches may=20 > depend on region/country), a link to his book is #17, and not one further= =20 > single ffconsultancy link is among the top 50.=20 >=20 > So, if a single individual makes about half of all the external links in = a=20 > Wikipedia page point to an irrelevant, obscure web site of his own(!),=20 > that hardly can be considered an "improvement", can it? >=20 > But unfortunately, such distorted view and presentation of reality seems= =20 > to be not too uncommon in Jon's writings. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > regards, tf@cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de (o_ > Thomas Fischbacher - http://www.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~tf //\ > (lambda (n) ((lambda (p q r) (p p q r)) (lambda (g x y) V_/_ > (if (=3D x 0) y (g g (- x 1) (* x y)))) n 1)) (Debian GNU) >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >=20 > ------=_Part_63944_17294028.1131308542585 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A little thing that I do not understand. Why the wikipedia page is = not written by the ocaml's team ? An encyclopedia has to been written by "e= xpert" and in the wiki idea with the help and the comments of the communaut= y... and a link (just one) to the ffconsultancy.com is not problem is there= are many other links even it is a firm. But other links to other comp= agnies should also added? Why not in the rubric application, a sub-cas= e "firm using ocaml" (that develop special applications with ocaml). And wh= y, in this page, there are so little links to applications in ocaml. For ex= ample, the soft http://www.astree.ens= .fr/ which is develop by academics people and using by a firm ?



> Message du 06/11/05 20:39
> De : "Thomas Fischbac= her"
> A : "Jon Harrop" <= JON@FFCONSULTANCY.COM>
> Copie =C3=A0 : caml-list@inria.fr
> Ob= jet : Re: [Caml-list] Wikipedia
>
>
> On Thu, 3 Nov 200= 5, Jon Harrop wrote:
>
> ...and once again, it may be interest= ing to see a bit more context.
>
> > http://en.wikipedia.or= g/wiki/Ocaml
> >
> > The page gets a lot of hits and is,= most likely, the first port of call by
> > many people when tryi= ng to learn about OCaml.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the qual= ity of this page is substantially worse than that of
> > the equi= valent pages on SML, Haskell and so on. I have tried to improve the
>= ; > page myself but most of my links have been removed following complai= nts to
> > admim by an anonymous, German-speaking, OCaml-using ph= ysicist with the IRC
> > nic "tf" and all of my corrections were = removed by Mike Lin. My code examples
> > remain though.
> =
> On Oct 26, 19:10, I put a note into the "talk" section of the OCam= l
> wikipedia article, pointing out that it contained an excessively= large
> amount of links to ffconsultancy.com, which were indeed ent= ered by Jon
> Harrop, by now infamous also on Usenet.
>
&g= t; http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk:O%27Caml_programming_la= nguage&oldid=3D26550471
>
> To give an excerpt from the ar= ticle as it was at that time:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/in= dex.php?title=3DOcaml&oldid=3D26478312
>
> Please note the= number of ffconsultancy.com links:
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D>
&g= t;=20

> Fun:


>=20
>= ;=20

> Education:


>=20
>=20

> Scientific:


>
>=20
&g= t;=20

> Commercial:


>=20
>=20

> Engineering:


>=20
> <=3D=3D=3D= =3D
>
> This was the state of the article when I put that comm= ent into the
> discussion section. I did not re-enter that discussio= n from then on, so
> when Jon says:
>
> > I have tri= ed to improve the
> > page myself but most of my links have been = removed following complaints to
> > admim by (...) tf
> > his "improvements" which were removed following my "complaints" can o= nly
> refer to his act of Wikipedia vandalism (as I would call it), = putting
> excessive link spam (see above) into the article.
> =
>
> Let's face it: if one takes Google rank as a a rough firs= t measure of
> relevance (in the sense of "how much do people talk a= bout it") in the
> non-academic world, in a search for "OCaml", none= of Jon's material
> (despite all his efforts) is in the top 10 (not= e: google searches may
> depend on region/country), a link to his bo= ok is #17, and not one further
> single ffconsultancy link is among = the top 50.
>
> So, if a single individual makes about half o= f all the external links in a
> Wikipedia page point to an irrelevan= t, obscure web site of his own(!),
> that hardly can be considered a= n "improvement", can it?
>
> But unfortunately, such distorted= view and presentation of reality seems
> to be not too uncommon in = Jon's writings.
>
>
> --
> regards, tf@cip.physi= k.uni-muenchen.de (o_
> Thomas Fischbacher - http://www.cip.physik.un= i-muenchen.de/~tf //\
> (lambda (n) ((lambda (p q r) (p p q r)) (lamb= da (g x y) V_/_
> (if (=3D x 0) y (g g (- x 1) (* x y)))) n 1)) (Debi= an GNU)
>
> _______________________________________________> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management:
> http://yquem= .inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list
> Archives: http://caml.= inria.fr
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_begin= ners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>
&g= t;
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