AW: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>]

Hi,

it is good to see that there is again some activity on the editor/ide  
issue. However, I see that there is one main problem of all current  
acitivities: nobody asks the potential users what they want.

Of course, there are many "preferences" in this area, and this is  
subjective, and not really debatable. You can like the result or not.  
But - and this is my point - there are also hard requirements. Again,  
this is different per user, but these points are not a matter of taste.

Just to make an example: Personally, I'm still sticking to emacs  
(although latest tuareg-mode is error-prone), mainly because it has one  
killer feature: Tramp. You need to know that I'm often not building my  
programs on the machine I'm sitting at, but I'm remotely logging in to  
another machine (often over continents). Tramp is an emacs module to  
edit files remotely via ssh/sftp.

My guess is that there are many other users who would profit from such  
a feature. Nevertheless, it is not popping up anywhere else - strange  
enough, since we left the "PC" era long ago where everything had to  
happen locally on your own computer. The IDEs seem not to have left  
this era, and in a time where everything moves to the cloud this is  
really anachronistic.

It is clear to me that many features of IDEs are more difficult to  
implement with such a requirement, as the latency to open files is way  
higher. But on my side there is nothing to discuss, as remotely editing  
files is more important than anything else.

Another point from the perspective of a professional: There is  
absolutely no need to integrate build support into the IDE (like  
OCamlEditor tries to do). We have already utilities for this, and these  
are scriptable - which is a MUST-HAVE for all professional use (think  
of continuous integration, for instance).

Gerd


Am 12.02.2013 12:29:41 schrieb(en) Louis Gesbert:
> Hi,
> 
> No offence taken :). OCamlEditor indeed looks like a very interesting  
> project,
> with lots of features already present. But the scope and project  
> goals are not
> the same though, so I think ocp-editor still has a place on its own ;
> 
> One of our main goals is to make IDE bricks available publicly, so I  
> think the
> projects can benefit to one another. I would be glad to borrow some  
> widgets from
> OCamlEditor, and it could use automatic indentation or better  
> toplevel process
> interaction.
> 
> If the author -- Francesco Tovagliari -- is around here, I would be  
> glad to know
> how he feels about this ?
> 
> --
> Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro
> 
> Le mardi 12 février 2013 00:24:36, Martin DeMello a écrit :
> > Hi Louis,
> >
> > That looks very interesting. Sorry if this seems like a rude  
> question;
> > I truly don't mean it that way, but if your editor needs a few  
> months
> > of work, why not work on a stripped-down interface for OCamlEditor
> > [http://ocamleditor.forge.ocamlcore.org/] instead? I remember when I
> > was learning web development I enjoyed using Evrsoft's "1st Page"  
> IDE,
> > which had modes that would add or remove bits from the interface as
> > you progressed from beginner to power user, and something like that
> > would be very nice to have for OCaml.
> >
> > martin
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Louis Gesbert
> >
> > <louis.gesbert@ocamlpro.com> wrote:
> > > OCaml is definitely lacking in this area; I am at the moment  
> working
> > > precisely on solving this issue, with a dedicated Gtk editor that  
> runs
> > > on Linux, OSX and Windows. It is pretty basic at the moment but  
> already
> > > has code edition and working toplevel interaction (no compilation  
> or
> > > project yet).
> > >
> > > Release is intended in a few months from now, with sufficient  
> features
> > > for beginners and students. If successful, it will then be  
> extended to
> > > handle bigger projects (multi-file, build system integration,  
> etc.).
> > >
> > > Until then, you may see the project's github page at
> > > https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocp-edit-simple (name temporary)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro
> > >
> > > Le Monday 11 February 2013 01:49:41, Martin DeMello a écrit :
> > >> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a  
> good
> > >> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and  
> trying
> > >> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
> > >>
> > >> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want  
> to
> > >> use them will know how to do it)
> > >> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and  
> OSX,
> > >> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
> > >> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to  
> install it
> > >> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently  
> present
> > >> and configured (!)
> > >> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
> > >>
> > >> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and  
> Geany won
> > >> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being  
> able to
> > >> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a  
> perfect
> > >> beginner-friendly experience.
> > >>
> > >> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting  
> Geany as
> > >> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be  
> happy
> > >> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
> > >>
> > >> martin
> > >
> > > --
> > > Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> > > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> > > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> > > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
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> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 



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Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
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