From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20CA07EE5C for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:43:34 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of info@gerd-stolpmann.de) identity=pra; client-ip=212.227.17.8; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-sender="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of info@gerd-stolpmann.de) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=212.227.17.8; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-sender="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of postmaster@moutng.kundenserver.de designates 212.227.17.8 as permitted sender) identity=helo; client-ip=212.227.17.8; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-sender="postmaster@moutng.kundenserver.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArMBAINNXFHU4xEIk2dsb2JhbABDgz2uKJIWgQwWDgEBAQEHCwsJFAMlgh8BAQQBHR0uBgsFLg1CGwkSBhMJCQKHbgMJCgi3AQMKiVsViQGDMYIsJgeDQAOOG4Zwgn+KUQOIJQ X-IPAS-Result: ArMBAINNXFHU4xEIk2dsb2JhbABDgz2uKJIWgQwWDgEBAQEHCwsJFAMlgh8BAQQBHR0uBgsFLg1CGwkSBhMJCQKHbgMJCgi3AQMKiVsViQGDMYIsJgeDQAOOG4Zwgn+KUQOIJQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.87,402,1363129200"; d="scan'208";a="9658460" Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.8]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 03 Apr 2013 17:43:33 +0200 Received: from office1.lan.sumadev.de (dslb-094-219-214-235.pools.arcor-ip.net [94.219.214.235]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrbap0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LwGC6-1UglzH2xwM-01865r; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 17:42:53 +0200 Received: from samsung (ip-5-146-55-186.unitymediagroup.de [5.146.55.186]) by office1.lan.sumadev.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5BE45C00D0; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 17:42:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 17:42:53 +0200 From: Gerd Stolpmann To: Anil Madhavapeddy Cc: Malcolm Matalka , caml-list@inria.fr In-Reply-To: <1850140A-303F-40BB-87AA-2DA5BAD33C3C@recoil.org> (from anil@recoil.org on Wed Apr 3 15:41:47 2013) X-Mailer: Balsa 2.4.11 Message-Id: <1365003773.10138.2@samsung> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; DelSp=Yes; Format=Flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:xkWNtSsOo4odZrQYkNnZXMjG+dqVbXSdux8cjYod7/q 5U70YTKhCGuGTwX2rDDCeTPQOrCUnQxYX8FF9y3glQPws7PYmD stD8irzCOD/mCNFD6qFpiO/C9t013H+Mc845h8TnKMT0oWg0Ya nioUFYeZjzqrFPFC747pS8ep63K3V4S3L9cEzD1773gUazKY7Z FKVI4h6+glZLz3l45muhmY1QBJG48N8tiwQ7kXxNygoSve6ljK ByggsonvnLJjbumxrL3aYlbe7wZOTbteW/YwJ6iUZp/m5LjzIk a2G8EPFtJKVyQ1vvDWappsY20BxDV9pcUagDjYHyQvLngOgLl7 1vW0IOH2jhgwX91yRzqkpD+i9+lsUtWljcjdiXhPA Subject: AW: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP? Sorry Anil, I did meant to criticize people who put a lot of work into organizing=20=20 events. On the contrary, this is highly welcome. My point is rather that you get a certain audience when an event is=20=20 organized as an addendum to a large academic conference. You don't get=20= =20 the average programmer, but people with a strong academic background.=20=20 Or more direct: OUD is then just a side program for people who attend=20=20 ICFP anyway. Am 03.04.2013 15:41:47 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy: > On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann =20=20 > wrote: >=20 > > Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy: > >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka =20=20 > wrote: > >> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great. I'm=20=20 > wondering if > >> > it's the same this year? > >> > > >> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being=20=20 > chaired by Michel Mauny this year. The Call for Proposals hasn't=20=20 > gone yet out. > > > > Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the=20=20 > first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic=20=20 > rituals. >=20 > Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people,=20=20 > reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors,=20=20 > organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and=20=20 > uploading them online. ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that for=20= =20 > us (Sylvain did a big job before). This is not meant with "rituals". The ritual is to visit ICFP every=20=20 year. The ritual is to publish a paper every year and to bore the=20=20 audience, as it happens often enough. This is acceptable as being part=20= =20 of science, but I just have some doubts whether this is the right=20=20 environment for a users' meeting, especially if you also want to=20=20 address users outside universities and research institutes. > Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me. I like=20=20 > attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML,=20=20 > Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks=20=20 > from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and=20=20 > wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the community. As an "industrial" user I am very interested into spreading out the=20=20 word to the masses. We have difficulties finding programmers, which is=20= =20 no wonder if nobody (on the street) has ever heard of the language.=20=20 What we need are not further talks at scientific conferences, but at=20=20 events attended by more average people. That could e.g. be open source=20= =20 conferences, hacker events, etc. I put "industrial" in quotes because there isn't an industry yet. The=20=20 companies using OCaml are doing this for very individual reasons, and=20=20 there is not much cooperation (so far I can see that). As you mention CUFP, this is a different type of thing. It's a=20=20 collection of success stories to encourage companies (and more=20=20 something for CTOs and chief architects). > The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend,=20=20 > instead of just European ones. The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years=20=20 > ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community.=20=20= =20 > ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to=20=20 > arrange with a single user group. Don't get me wrong, but a "travelling" conference has also many cons.=20=20 E.g. in general it is harder to plan the attendance (reserving time,=20=20 planning the costs, etc.), especially if the location is not at a=20=20 traffic hub. > Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive thing.=20= =20 > Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here:=20=20 > http://ocaml.org/meetings.html > Do get involved and set up your own. Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm really doing enough for the=20= =20 success of OCaml. Gerd > -anil >=20 >=20 > -- > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >=20 --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de Creator of GODI and camlcity.org. Contact details: http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html Company homepage: http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de ------------------------------------------------------------=