From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63C687EE51 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 18:55:14 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of info@gerd-stolpmann.de) identity=pra; client-ip=212.227.17.8; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-sender="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of info@gerd-stolpmann.de) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=212.227.17.8; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-sender="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of postmaster@moutng.kundenserver.de designates 212.227.17.8 as permitted sender) identity=helo; client-ip=212.227.17.8; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-sender="postmaster@moutng.kundenserver.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArMBADxeXFHU4xEIk2dsb2JhbABDgz2uLJIWgQwWDgEBAQEHCwsJFAMlgh8BAQUdHS4GCykKDUIbCRIGEwkJAoduAxMItlgDColbFYkBgzGCLCYHg0ADjhuGcIJ/ilEDiCU X-IPAS-Result: ArMBADxeXFHU4xEIk2dsb2JhbABDgz2uLJIWgQwWDgEBAQEHCwsJFAMlgh8BAQUdHS4GCykKDUIbCRIGEwkJAoduAxMItlgDColbFYkBgzGCLCYHg0ADjhuGcIJ/ilEDiCU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.87,402,1363129200"; d="scan'208";a="9667238" Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.8]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 03 Apr 2013 18:55:13 +0200 Received: from office1.lan.sumadev.de (dslb-094-219-214-235.pools.arcor-ip.net [94.219.214.235]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrbap3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M1XmT-1UdAUI0wSP-00tVhE; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 18:54:39 +0200 Received: from samsung (ip-5-146-55-186.unitymediagroup.de [5.146.55.186]) by office1.lan.sumadev.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DBC10C00D0; Wed, 3 Apr 2013 18:54:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 18:54:38 +0200 From: Gerd Stolpmann To: Malcolm Matalka Cc: Anil Madhavapeddy , caml-list@inria.fr In-Reply-To: <87y5cz8t6y.fsf@li195-236.members.linode.com> (from mmatalka@gmail.com on Wed Apr 3 18:39:17 2013) X-Mailer: Balsa 2.4.11 Message-Id: <1365008078.10138.3@samsung> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; DelSp=Yes; Format=Flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:GjQSWmgZt0AtPC6Ky/fQ6VX+iEZGcTnspj24D54MedW Ve/8k8DDEQAG5IaOGtq+NeiQ4fJKu6ipQmypVRoHmD19iW3sfj nFrGlW96SSomp3aKrfiw+zWJ9TAqtxQeFh2FR3Wr36fULQjs0e QHfFrKuARg+cV25EpYNLiHxJc7JUmnezFzxfuwPatoflTmeTKE XB/0FVnsXNs836WlmzY74xXu38UqA2atM8/TpZ8E4ma0jtjhT+ SdeIq76uEViEf44CS2PkiVPCUP3BssURm8iEOobXSHeVmEiWsQ qizveJSkxNNKY8nVI5CTSE7fIAx2AVD5FwZE74SYEWh1rsTzq8 etFUVeCKNyiFM6ccqOTUNt4EKVHj3iRp2PhTOX7Nr Subject: AW: AW: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP? Am 03.04.2013 18:39:17 schrieb(en) Malcolm Matalka: > OUD was part of CUFP last year, which is the Commercial part of ICFP.=20= =20 > I > did not attend ICFP but just CUFP, and didn't find OUD or CUFP too > academic. Did you? Can't tell about last year, but I visited both CUFP and OUD twice=20=20 (independently), and it was ok (well, I gave talks on OUD). But this is=20= =20 not my point - I'm more worried about the audience the event attracts,=20= =20 and also about the character in total. I mean it's a difference whether=20= =20 you have an event of its own (even if small) or if it is part of a=20=20 larger conference, where you certainly also have visitors just seeking=20= =20 entertainment for a bridge day. You know I'm one of the guys who are always worried if the most=20=20 convenient path is taken. Gerd >=20 > /M >=20 > Gerd Stolpmann writes: >=20 > > Sorry Anil, > > > > I did meant to criticize people who put a lot of work into=20=20 > organizing > > events. On the contrary, this is highly welcome. > > > > My point is rather that you get a certain audience when an event is > > organized as an addendum to a large academic conference. You don't=20= =20 > get > > the average programmer, but people with a strong academic=20=20 > background. > > Or more direct: OUD is then just a side program for people who=20=20 > attend > > ICFP anyway. > > > > Am 03.04.2013 15:41:47 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy: > >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy: > >> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka > >> wrote: > >> >> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great. I'm > >> wondering if > >> >> > it's the same this year? > >> >> > > >> >> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being > >> chaired by Michel Mauny this year. The Call for Proposals hasn't > >> gone yet out. > >> > > >> > Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the > >> first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic > >> rituals. > >> > >> Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people, > >> reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors, > >> organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and > >> uploading them online. ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that=20= =20 > for > >> us (Sylvain did a big job before). > > > > This is not meant with "rituals". The ritual is to visit ICFP every > > year. The ritual is to publish a paper every year and to bore the > > audience, as it happens often enough. This is acceptable as being=20=20 > part > > of science, but I just have some doubts whether this is the right > > environment for a users' meeting, especially if you also want to > > address users outside universities and research institutes. > > > >> Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me. I like > >> attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML, > >> Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks > >> from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and > >> wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the=20=20 > community. > > > > As an "industrial" user I am very interested into spreading out the > > word to the masses. We have difficulties finding programmers, which=20= =20 > is > > no wonder if nobody (on the street) has ever heard of the language. > > What we need are not further talks at scientific conferences, but at > > events attended by more average people. That could e.g. be open=20=20 > source > > conferences, hacker events, etc. > > > > I put "industrial" in quotes because there isn't an industry yet.=20=20 > The > > companies using OCaml are doing this for very individual reasons,=20=20 > and > > there is not much cooperation (so far I can see that). > > > > As you mention CUFP, this is a different type of thing. It's a > > collection of success stories to encourage companies (and more > > something for CTOs and chief architects). > > > >> The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend, > >> instead of just European ones. The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years > >> ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community. > >> ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to > >> arrange with a single user group. > > > > Don't get me wrong, but a "travelling" conference has also many=20=20 > cons. > > E.g. in general it is harder to plan the attendance (reserving time, > > planning the costs, etc.), especially if the location is not at a > > traffic hub. > > > >> Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive=20=20 > thing. > >> Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here: > >> http://ocaml.org/meetings.html > >> Do get involved and set up your own. > > > > Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm really doing enough for=20= =20 > the > > success of OCaml. > > > > Gerd > > > >> -anil > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > >> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > >> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > >> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs > >> >=20 > -- > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >=20 >=20 --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de Creator of GODI and camlcity.org. Contact details: http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html Company homepage: http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de ------------------------------------------------------------=