From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0161A81799 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:34:32 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of info@gerd-stolpmann.de) identity=pra; client-ip=212.227.126.171; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-sender="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of info@gerd-stolpmann.de) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=212.227.126.171; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-sender="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of postmaster@moutng.kundenserver.de designates 212.227.126.171 as permitted sender) identity=helo; client-ip=212.227.126.171; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="info@gerd-stolpmann.de"; x-sender="postmaster@moutng.kundenserver.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AisCAKJN7lHU436rbWdsb2JhbABbgzvBCYESFg4LCwwGFgMlgiQBAQQBOj8FLmoNAQ0GEwmIAQoIuF0WiU2EboEcJgeDfgOOZYohkziBbw X-IPAS-Result: AisCAKJN7lHU436rbWdsb2JhbABbgzvBCYESFg4LCwwGFgMlgiQBAQQBOj8FLmoNAQ0GEwmIAQoIuF0WiU2EboEcJgeDfgOOZYohkziBbw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,726,1367964000"; d="scan'208";a="21988230" Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.171]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 23 Jul 2013 11:34:32 +0200 Received: from office1.lan.sumadev.de (dslb-094-219-211-114.pools.arcor-ip.net [94.219.211.114]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MHci0-1UyFbR2O32-003Zrg; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:34:25 +0200 Received: from samsung (546BF816.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl [84.107.248.22]) by office1.lan.sumadev.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3340DC00CF; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:34:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:34:24 +0200 From: Gerd Stolpmann To: Anil Madhavapeddy Cc: caml-list@inria.fr, godi-list@ocaml-programming.de In-Reply-To: <9682B571-11D0-4B1D-A8A4-6074E98C7519@recoil.org> (from anil@recoil.org on Tue Jul 23 00:32:43 2013) X-Mailer: Balsa 2.4.11 Message-Id: <1374572064.25411.2@samsung> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; DelSp=Yes; Format=Flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:ed7HFRqGI89aaVc+Ftq6etLFahZp0ncqBYDh8TSuy7w 6BVRQa0HSN2oyKzisbuaS/ySr3NqHP7LFHx2l3zNOYE3bcc9QZ p/+dhnn1hAUdQfml6Wx4U4dCRV/6yJ7QnEfabtuaHAsQKhjhtz d2h/hkGxzwFNhSxMW8o/KBtzsgMYO0xJD0ApB7ornIPfSc7zGx KeIPhPsQ9sfSjlaBsE5SnXBeVA7R5d9Tk7omlootWRuQDvwjTk TFCsNakQLXUgGDXtGzF/mYOzw/4rj5bTJPo7aRXZnhHkAFn+hg +BvUFDD22s0jZuFl1GqOB+naRbZRKqM3zGWuBOdLWpwMFo11yn ECHTTi/Gh0xL+QVXaWe8= Subject: AW: [Caml-list] GODI is shutting down Am 23.07.2013 00:32:43 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy: > On 22 Jul 2013, at 22:21, "Gerd Stolpmann" =20=20 > wrote: >=20 > > There is also another point that was driving me mad in the past=20=20 > weeks, > > namely missing respect from the OPAM guys. Given the fact that OPAM=20= =20 > is > > only a thin layer around ocamlfind (and guess who wrote it), and=20=20 > given the > > fact that GODI was pioneering in many fields, I was expecting nicer > > wordings, and less dumb campaigning ("we have 400 packages, and you=20= =20 > only > > 170"). OPAM is only harvesting what I seeded many years ago. >=20 > So when you describe the virtues of GODI, you call it 'advocating',=20=20 > and when > Fabrice describes the virtues of OPAM, it's 'dumb campaigning'. This=20= =20 > is > splendidly reminiscent of US politics! I do not live in the US, so I have no idea what you are talking about. > Anyway, I'm not a GODI user, but I think you're doing a disservice to=20= =20 > your > loyal GODI users if you shut it down in a huff. There are features=20=20 > (notably > Windows support) where it'll take OPAM some time to catch up. I=20=20 > think that > the real reason that you're shutting it is nothing to do with=20=20 > "respect", but > is good old-fashioned burnt-out: If you mean that I'm alone not louder than the crowd, maybe call it=20=20 burnout. At a certain point I noticed that arguments do not count=20=20 anymore, and it doesn't matter what I do. So it doesn't make sense to=20=20 put more energy into this project. > > Although there are still a lot of GODI users, it is unavoidable to=20= =20 > shut GODI down due to lack of supporters, especially package=20=20 > developers. I was more or less alone in the past months, and my time=20= =20 > contingent will not allow it to do the upgrade to OCaml 4.01 alone=20=20 > (when it is released). >=20 > Instead of doing such a heroic solo job (which I'm not being funny=20=20 > about -- > it really is a lot of work), why not spend the time to open up GODI=20=20 > as well? >=20 > Most of the OPAM package descriptions come from *other people*. We=20=20 > just review > them, give feedback if necessary, click the merge button and fix=20=20 > errors that > creep through. And even that takes up a surprising amount of time... That's again campaign - you have absolutely no idea, but the reader of=20= =20 your lines will have the impression that GODI is a closed system only=20=20 created by a single guy. Actually, most GODI packages were done by=20=20 other people (well, initially at least, but many packages got orphaned=20= =20 over time). GODI is an open system, only that it's not as radically=20=20 transparent as people are nowadays used to (i.e. there is no web site=20=20 with user statistics, no public commit logs, no easy way to pull=20=20 commits from other systems, no whatever other bells and whistles, and=20=20 you needed to send me an email to register, old style). But the users=20=20 had all freedom, including doing releases completely on their own (no=20=20 pull request bureaucracy). Gerd --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------ Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de Creator of GODI and camlcity.org. Contact details: http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html Company homepage: http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de ------------------------------------------------------------=