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From: Dario Teixeira <darioteixeira@yahoo.com>
To: OCaml <caml-list@inria.fr>, "Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen" <mikkel@dvide.com>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] More cores
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 06:04:22 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <157727.93194.qm@web111508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <caee5ad80812190504p14b7bdf8n9e04be0168adc43e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

> Is it time to start rethinking concurrency in OCaml?
> (...)

That's a recurrent topic in this list.  I'll summarise the arguments
and save us all some time:

i) Someone raises the issue that it's time for Ocaml to go multicore.

ii) A few voices go "yeah!" and state that with a concurrent GC,
    Ocaml can take over the world.  Their argument is as follows:

    1) Ocaml gets a concurrent GC;
    2) ...
    3) Profit!

iii) A voice of reason notes that the devil is in step 2) above.
     If your programming paradigm for concurrency is Threads+Mutexes,
     then you are exposing yourself to a world of pain in race
     conditions.  At this point someone usually links to Xavier's
     standard speech on concurrency (which is a few years old, but
     as poignant now as it was then).

iv) The voices from step ii) retort that they're über-programmers
    and that they can make perfectly scalable and race condition-free
    programmes with Threads+Mutexes if only they had a concurrent GC.

v) The voice of reason remarks that one of the main reasons we all chose
   Ocaml is because the language ensures safe, resilient programmes.
   In a way it's the humble recognition that we are human, and that
   we make mistakes.  Choosing the Threads+Mutexes path would be
   hubris and an abandonment of fundamental reasons why we chose
   Ocaml in the first place.


While I tend to agree with viewpoints iii) and v), I do think a healthy
discussion on the subject of multicore is in order.  Though I suggest
we focus the discussion on concurrency models that will allow us to
take advantage of those multicores in a safe, sane manner:

a) Could Jocaml be the future of Ocaml?

b) How do we handle the global mutability issue?


Best regards,
Dario Teixeira






  reply	other threads:[~2008-12-19 14:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 37+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-12-19 13:04 Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
2008-12-19 14:04 ` Dario Teixeira [this message]
2008-12-19 15:06   ` [Caml-list] " Alexy Khrabrov
2008-12-19 15:54     ` The Axis of Eval (was: More cores) Dario Teixeira
2008-12-19 16:26       ` [Caml-list] " Paolo Donadeo
2008-12-19 17:01       ` Dario Teixeira
2008-12-19 18:01         ` Christophe Raffalli
2008-12-19 18:50     ` [Caml-list] More cores Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB)
2008-12-19 19:10   ` Richard Jones
2008-12-19 22:31   ` Jon Harrop
2008-12-19 22:36     ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2008-12-19 22:53       ` Jon Harrop
2008-12-22 17:00         ` [Caml-list] More Caml Jon Harrop
2008-12-22 21:44           ` Richard Jones
2008-12-23  6:07             ` Jon Harrop
2008-12-23  9:59               ` Jon Harrop
2008-12-23 15:32                 ` Ashish Agarwal
2008-12-23 17:33                   ` Jon Harrop
2008-12-24 13:12                 ` Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
2008-12-24 16:47                   ` Jon Harrop
2008-12-23 10:04               ` Richard Jones
2008-12-23 10:38                 ` Jon Harrop
2008-12-23  9:43           ` Oliver Bandel
2008-12-23 11:53             ` Jon Harrop
2008-12-19 22:42     ` [Caml-list] More cores Richard Jones
2008-12-20 19:33     ` Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
2008-12-20 19:41       ` Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
2008-12-19 20:37 ` Oliver Bandel
2008-12-19 21:27   ` Richard Jones
2008-12-19 22:03     ` Hezekiah M. Carty
2008-12-19 22:47       ` Richard Jones
2008-12-19 23:00         ` Alexy Khrabrov
2008-12-19 23:56         ` prelude.ml as another standard extension to Pervasives? Alexy Khrabrov
2008-12-20  1:40           ` [Caml-list] " Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
2008-12-20  4:50             ` Alexy Khrabrov
2008-12-20 10:53               ` Zheng Li
2008-12-20 12:37         ` [Caml-list] More cores Richard Jones

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