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[88.170.165.56]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a6sm5699819wib.10.2013.07.24.07.44.44 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Thomas Gazagnaire Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Thomas Gazagnaire In-Reply-To: <1374669368.25411.5@samsung> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 16:44:43 +0200 Cc: Fabrice Le Fessant , Francois Berenger , Ocaml Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1B6BB035-9909-4F0C-9DEA-F713B977A467@ocamlpro.com> References: <1374669368.25411.5@samsung> To: Gerd Stolpmann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Subject: Re: AW: [Caml-list] GODI is shutting down > In the past days I made the experience that OPAM advocates never answer t= o any of my objections. When I said "GODI has feature xy, why doesn't OPAM = has this too?" the only response is something like "OPAM has this great Git= hub-based workflow" (the most harmless variant). Discussion impossible. Let's try to be constructive then. I've tried to look for all your recent o= bjections, let me known if I have missed some. 1. " Instead, there was later questionable behavior from Ocamlpro, namely t= hat they copied (at least parts of) GODI packages, without having asked for= permission. (In particular, there was evidence that they copied the packag= e description texts.) This might be legal, but the reader will understand t= hat this is unfriendly, and unneccessarily aggressive. At that point it was= clear that they are trying to push GODI aside, even with questionable mean= s." Some of the initial package descriptions were indeed copied from the descri= ption files of the corresponding GODI packages (which have been often itsel= f copied from the author website). I was not aware of this when the descrip= tions got integrated in the repository, and I've removed them as soon as th= e issue has been raised on the GODI mailing list [1, 8 oct 2012] and [2, 8 = oct 2012]. To avoid such issue in the future we are planning to clarify the= licensing scheme on all the metadata published on the "official repository= " (we would like to make it public domain if possible, but it's maybe too l= ate). [1] https://godirepo.camlcity.org/pipermail/godi-list/2012-October/003517.h= tml [2] https://godirepo.camlcity.org/pipermail/godi-list/2012-October/003521.h= tml 2. "It doesn't matter that OPAM lacks core functions like deleting all file= s when a package is removed" I was very surprised when I've read that (and I though it was just an unrel= ated rant), but as you seem to insist I guess you are serious. Where did yo= u read that ? Of course, OPAM deletes the files it has installed! - It removes $prefix/lib/, $prefix/doc/ (and the other usual pa= ths associated to a package, but keeps $share/ for future reinstallat= ions) and it calls whatever removal scripts the user has registered (which = is 'ocamlfind remove ' for most of the packaged libaries -- which is = still useful when you have C stubs to remove in $prefix/stublibs), and; - It also removes the files specified in an optional `.install` file = located at the root of the directory (which is useful when you have binarie= s). We have some experimental features to scan the filesystem before and af= ter the installation, and update the corresponding `.install` file wi= th the difference but it's quite slow (because of the filesystem scanning) = and this does not work when the number of jobs is greater than 1. But I wou= ld prefer to let that task to the packagers (or to their build-system, see = for instance that nice omake extension[3]) [3] https://github.com/smondet/dircmp/blob/master/OMakeroot#L175 3. "There is the QA question, at least for the main repository" This is on-going work. The first objective was to gather as much packages a= s possible, and to make people start to rely on other people packages inste= ad of restarting each projects from scratch. Now we are starting to focus o= n the QA side, as Anil already have already told you in a previous email, a= s we slowly replace our old private Jenkins setup by a more advanced, fully= written in OCaml -- but still experimental -- testing platform. Look at th= e the 4.00.1 on linux results they are the more meaningful for now on, more= than 90% of the packages are working fine (and yes, that's definitely need= s to be improved, but I would say that's not so bad). https://ocaml-www3.ocamllabs.cl.cam.ac.uk/github/OCamlPro/opam-repository Then, as discussed on [4], we plan to select the package with the right lev= el of QA to be part of the upcoming "OCaml Platform". The platform itself w= ill either be a separate repository, or a separate branch or simply a virtu= al package in the main repository -- as explained in [4] (and on other thre= ads of the platform list) the contents of the platform will be driven by QA= criteria. [4] http://lists.ocaml.org/pipermail/platform/2013-February/000001.html 4. "how well a library is integrated into the OS" Currently, with a minimal support. We are working on improving that. Look a= t the `depext` field in the sqlite3-ocaml package[5], that you can query us= ing the command-line: $ opam install sqlite3-ocaml -e debian,wheezy,amd64 libsqlite3-dev The goal is to use that metadata to "drive" the installation/checks of exte= rnal dependencies, depending on the user host and OS. The short-term goal i= s to display nice error messages though. [5] https://github.com/OCamlPro/opam-repository/blob/master/packages/sqlite= 3-ocaml.2.0.4/opam 5. "lack of windows support and binary packages" OPAM supports for Windows is not so good at the moment indeed. However, thi= ngs are getting better as we are improving the support for windows (we have= a private version which compiles and run OK on cygwin for basic packages) = and we have an experimental binary support that we are still prototyping [6= ]. GODI and WODI are clearly in advance in this domain (but I recall that W= ODI is a relatively new project). [6]. https://github.com/venator/opam/tree/binary 6. "No, all package managers should unite in this point, and only accept packages with oasis support. (Btw, that's homework for me.) Just do it the same way as we did when requiring findlib." I disagree, people should be free to use whatever system they want. 7. About the generation of OPAM files from _oasis I am not totally convinced by all the arguments I seen so far. Making a new= release because a package constraint is wrong seems not to be a good idea = to me. A large proportion of pull request in the the package metadata's rep= ository is about fixing such dependency constraints (which are discovered b= y our testing tools). I don't have a yet a good story to bring that informa= tion back into the package, but I'd say that I'm not very fond of mixing ev= erything together: let's keep the dependency constraints part of the packag= e system and the build instruction part of the build system -- that's much = simpler that way. 8. "You are a victim of OPAM's campaign." Sorry, I have no facts to answer here. Best, Thomas=