From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA16366; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:32:54 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA16168 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:32:53 +0200 (MET DST) X-SPAM-Warning: Sending machine is listed in blackholes.five-ten-sg.com Received: from wetware.com (wetware.wetware.com [199.108.16.1]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id i817WqdR031978 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:32:53 +0200 Received: from [208.177.152.17] (helo=[10.0.1.5]) by wetware.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1C2Pbo-0002uW-Al for caml-list@inria.fr; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:32:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Message-Id: <1C67CF9A-FBE9-11D8-8C25-000A958FF2FE@wetware.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Cross-compiling OCaml Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 00:32:42 -0700 To: The Caml Trade X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Miltered: at nez-perce with ID 41357B24.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Spam: no; 0.00; woodyatt:01 jhw:01 wetware:01 caml-list:01 caml-list:01 brandon:99 woodyatt:01 lifestyle:99 priorities:01 proverb:01 grass:01 awry:01 jhw:01 wetware:01 productive:01 Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk [this will be my last message on this subject to the caml-list] On 31 Aug 2004, at 02:05, Brandon J. Van Every wrote: > james woodyatt wrote: >> >> [people like me] who couldn't give a rat's patootie whether the=20 >> existing level of support for Windows improves any time soon. > > I think the reason you should care is because Windows is a big=20 > platform with a lot of users. Well, I don't care about Windows and its users. I don't have to care. =20= I have a day job that pays the rent, and neither the Windows platform=20 nor its users are a significant part of my personal lifestyle=20 management strategy. And if I were to care about big platforms with lots of users that=20 currently don't have Objective Caml support, the biggest ones on the=20 list would be Embedded Linux and VxWorks, not Windows. And that would=20= mean=97 wait for it=97=A0cross-compiling Ocaml. (Why look, that's the=20= subject line in this thread!) > If you want to see the use of OCaml grow, so that there's more OCaml=20= > stuff available for all of us, and more paying OCaml jobs, then growth=20= > on the Windows platform is important. I think you have your priorities crossed. Lots of good code migrates=20 out of the Unix culture into the Windows development world, but it=20 historically *never* happens when Unix-centric people push=97 only when=20= Windows-centric people pull. Remember the ancient hippie proverb: "Ass, gas or grass;=A0nobody rides=20= for free." If you want to see growth on the Windows platform (or any=20 other platform), then you need to start paying for it=97=A0either in = euros=20 or in time spent coding on it. > Your conclusion doesn't fit the available data. The available data is=20= > your project has hardly gotten off the ground. You have a recruitment=20= > problem. You haven't solved it, because you haven't established basic=20= > infrastructure for such recruitment. Ah, I see where we have gone awry. Since I don't have a payroll, I'm=20 in no position to recruit. Since it will be a long time before I have=20= anything to sell, I am expending very little effort on marketing. I do=20= not need or want any help developing my library. I do not need or want=20= a Windows port of my library, and if I did, I would code it myself. I am merely including in my announcements (four of them, so far=97 five=20= counting this one) a note that I don't have support for Windows, and=20 that I would need assistance porting it. If you want a Windows port,=20 you will have to make it yourself=97 but I would be happy to coordinate=20= the integration of appropriate patches into future releases. Waiting=20 for me to do it on my own will be a *long* wait. >> Meanwhile, not a week goes by on this list without some=20 >> Windows-centric guy complaining about the vacuum of Windows support=20= >> for Ocaml. I'm starting to believe the problem is that=20 >> Windows-centric guys are lazy bums who whine too much about what=20 >> other people choose to do with their time when they should be=20 >> spending their own time coding on things that are important to them. > > Should I fault you for the public administration of your project? =20 > I'll choose not to, if you choose not to blame 'Windows whiners' for=20= > your project status. Arggh. I'm not blaming "Windows whiners" for the status of *my*=20 project. I'm blaming them for the status of *YOUR* project. My project is moving along just fine (pretty close to a major release=20 of a whole raft of useful new components) on the [very] limited=20 publicity and non-existent Windows support it currently enjoys, thank=20 you. Your project appears to be suffering setbacks with every message=20= you post to the list. (Here is the real motivation for me to post this off-topic drivel=97 I=20= think your project may not get the attention it deserves unless you=20 adopt a more *productive* strategy. And besides that, I happen to=20 think an OCaml cross-compiler, and/or a cross-compiled bytecode=20 interpreter, would be a fantastic contribution to the community. I=20 hope someone picks up that ball and runs with it.) --=20 j h woodyatt markets are only free to the people who own them.= ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners