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From: kahl@heraklit.informatik.unibw-muenchen.de
To: caml-list@inria.fr
Cc: Judicael.Courant@lri.fr, garrigue@kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling
Date: 2 Apr 2001 10:33:51 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20010402103351.1844.qmail@dionysos.informatik.unibw-muenchen.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3AC83117.7C3AD3C9@lri.fr> (message from Judicael Courant on Mon, 02 Apr 2001 09:58:15 +0200)


Judicael Courant <Judicael.Courant@lri.fr> wrote:

> I think beginners are not the problem. Explaining that you have labels
> and that arguments may commute seems quite easy to me [...]

[...]

> You should not sacrifice the Right Way (tm) for compatibility. I mean,
> the default way to write a program should be the Right Way (i.e. with
> labels): you should encourage people writing a new program/module to use
> labels

I second this.


Now let me be a bit extreme: ;-)

Since labels are recognised as the way to go,
the next release will most likely have different labellings and
different label semantics (at least for previous classic mode users)
than the last release.


The situation is then very simple: ;-)

Everybody has the coice to continue to use the old version,
or to upgrade their source code to the new version.  ;-)

I have had this choice about ten times,
and I made the same decision every time!
(Project size: growing from about 30 to about 50 modules,
 10 to 30 thousand lines.)
(I hesitated only once, but that was exclusively for the change
 in the license conditions.)

Even when I needed to adapt a classic-mode third-party application
(for purposes not connected with the above-mentioned project),
my first move was to labelise it so it compiled in label mode
(or was it still OLabl at that time? I don't remember).

Given the average enthusiasm of the OCaml commnunity,
I am sure that the every OCaml user will immediately follow suit!
(In multi-person projects, this might be an excellent way
 to have the latest newcomer become acquainted with the whole source code
 in a single day ;-)


More seriously: Judicaël continues:

> So I think this is the Wrong Approach (tm). Instead, you should provide
> an CompatLib (or WithoutLabels) compatibility module for old code and a
> possibly a flag for compiling code with an implicit "open CompatLib". As
> for other libraries, the Right Way is to have the default libraries with
> labels also. Then either you suggest them to move to the Right Way, or
> you provide them the needed CompatLibs.

I think Jacques' proposal with the '-names is viable,
but I agree that from the design perspective, Judicaël's Right Way
should be preferred --- it may even be slightly more ``user-friendly''
than my extreme proposal.



Cheers,

Wolfram
-------------------
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-04-02 15:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-03-31  3:40 [Caml-list] Future of labels Yaron M. Minsky
2001-04-02  3:39 ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-02  7:58   ` Judicael Courant
2001-04-02  8:50     ` Markus Mottl
2001-04-02 10:33     ` kahl [this message]
2001-04-03  0:35       ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03  1:36         ` Kipton M Barros
2001-04-03  1:52         ` Patrick M Doane
2001-04-03  3:53           ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03  5:10             ` Patrick M Doane
2001-04-03  9:30               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03  8:52             ` Xavier Leroy
2001-04-03  9:34               ` Judicael Courant
2001-04-03  9:54               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03 12:59                 ` Jean-Christophe Filliatre
2001-04-03 13:11                   ` [Caml-list] ocaml, java, rmi and jini Martin Berger
2001-04-03 19:23                     ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-03 20:50                       ` Gerd Stolpmann
2001-04-06  9:40                         ` Sven LUTHER
2001-04-06 20:57                           ` Gerd Stolpmann
2001-04-03 21:06                       ` martinb
2001-04-06 15:03                     ` Xavier Leroy
2001-04-03 14:06                   ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03 14:12                     ` Daniel de Rauglaudre
2001-04-03 14:42                       ` Claude Marche
2001-04-04 19:18                     ` Gerd Stolpmann
2001-04-03  9:55               ` Ohad Rodeh
2001-04-03 18:06                 ` [Caml-list] Example of Ocaml-syntax problem with ; Mattias Waldau
2001-04-04 15:15                 ` [Caml-list] Suspending threads Ohad Rodeh
2001-04-04 17:28                   ` Vitaly Lugovsky
2001-04-06 13:21                   ` Xavier Leroy
2001-04-03 12:02               ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling Dave Mason
2001-04-03 13:43               ` Francois-Rene Rideau
2001-04-03 14:23                 ` Daniel de Rauglaudre
2001-04-03 13:43               ` Frank Atanassow
2001-04-03 13:58               ` Joshua D. Guttman
2001-04-03 16:52               ` Eric C. Cooper
2001-04-09  9:05                 ` John Max Skaller
2001-04-09  7:29             ` John Max Skaller
2001-04-03  8:07         ` Judicael Courant
2001-04-03  6:55     ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-03 18:13       ` [Caml-list] Generics? Brian Rogoff
2001-04-03 20:12         ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-10 16:48           ` John Max Skaller
2001-04-09  8:11       ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling John Max Skaller
2001-04-09  9:21         ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-09 15:06           ` Fergus Henderson
2001-04-10 18:49           ` John Max Skaller
2001-04-09 19:54         ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-10  3:37           ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-10  7:42             ` Judicael Courant
2001-04-10  8:25               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-10  8:46               ` Claude Marche
2001-04-10 10:09                 ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-10 14:42                   ` Lionnel Maugis
2001-04-10  9:06             ` François-René Rideau
2001-04-11 15:34               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-11 17:48                 ` Dave Mason
2001-04-12 12:39                 ` [Caml-list] How do I define prog1? Mattias Waldau
2001-04-12 14:22                   ` Vitaly Lugovsky
2001-04-12 17:53                     ` William Chesters
2001-04-12 15:15                   ` Sven LUTHER
2001-04-12 16:14                     ` Mattias Waldau
2001-04-12 15:21                   ` Maxence Guesdon
2001-04-12 15:47                   ` Stefan Monnier
2001-04-17 20:04                     ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-10 22:43             ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling Brian Rogoff
2001-04-11  8:29               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-11  9:44                 ` Anton Moscal
2001-04-11 13:16                 ` Didier Remy
2001-04-11 15:11                   ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03  7:27 Arturo Borquez
2001-04-03 16:39 John R Harrison
2001-04-04 16:37 Dave Berry
2001-04-11 10:48 Francois-Rene Rideau
2001-04-17 11:53 Poigné

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