From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id GAA28994; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:20:33 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA28983 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:20:32 +0200 (MET DST) X-SPAM-Warning: Sending machine is listed in blackholes.five-ten-sg.com Received: from execpc.com (d139.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net [169.207.136.205]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6O4KTX23457 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:20:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from travis@localhost) by execpc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00730; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:20:37 -0400 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:20:36 -0400 From: Travis Bemann To: Pal-Kristian Engstad Cc: caml-list@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Caml productivity. Message-ID: <20020723232036.A663@execpc.com> References: <00d201c2316d$09d27920$0700a8c0@warp> <20020722174635.18927.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20020722174635.18927.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>; from mrengstad@yahoo.com on Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 10:46:35AM -0700 X-Security: Consider encrypting or at least authenticating your email Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 10:46:35AM -0700, Pal-Kristian Engstad wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Nicolas Cannasse seems to believe that "productivity" > and "performance" are orthogonal concepts. They are > not always. For some tasks the performance of the > algorithm determins if the program can be put into the > application. Hence, if the program executes too > slowly, the program is useless and the time spent on > it was a waste. In other words, there was no > productivity at all. >=20 > I commend Nicolas for trying to use O'Caml in a games > setting. We, however, can not afford this - instead > the company designed and implemented a specific > language in order to be able to optimize _and_ be > productive. This language has high-level constructs as > well as low-level constructs --- and they can be > freely mixed. Actually, speed-wise natively compiled OCaml (on at least x86; I haven't seen benches for other architectures) is slightly faster than C++ compiled by gcc 3.0, and slightly slower than C compiled by gcc 3.0. OCaml does have an excellent C binding facility, which makes it easy to interface between OCaml and C code (so therefore one can use C for extremely speed-critical code while writing most other code in OCaml). Thus, I see little advantage to writing a whole new natively compiled language (which would require writing a whole new code generation and optimization layer, which would be extremely time-intensive, unless such a language were "compiled to C" as things such as GCL (GNU Common Lisp) do) rather than simply using OCaml with speed-critical or otherwise extremely low-level code in C. --=20 Yes, I know my enemies. They're the teachers who tell me to fight me. Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission, ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite. All of which are American dreams. - Rage Against The Machine --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org owFtVkuLHUUUzsMgXLiLLBWE4yzMDLl9vZloIhMSGa4xmZiHkTHiKtTtPre7THXV TVX19HSWrgRBdCcBQXFpFuIyO0EXkj8hiIJu/QN+pzp3HomzmOmuPq/vO985NV8O jx89dnLn9p+/mDs/fnH0yT/xyMVLrxyfOhvZxmy7W/AGRd6Nry+M0vYC5ZXygePF JmQq5FoPB0vbd3RYuKCjdnaDtDXa8v7Hba9smLPPLtvcFdqWG3S/cZGLbOG1jWpm YDwc3LJ0w9kRXWsMra+PaH0yWScV6cxk441zG2ff3LxB2eT8ZDKi95XJ3vM6RK0s XbZliKqg1iPkxnBwia7qEf5cXJ/Iy02dO6MCTZW1KgSmwFwHio5mbDTvMMUKSVYW 3hVNHvWOjt2KOCpb4JT93Pla2ZxXSHkm52PlSmeVodzhdBHDmLYr7uSruFkXSZlW dTh/13kKrkYKFe4hZ8V0ICC5uRylXKZ0XseqpoIj+1rbQHreO3hXelVTDqgzvDYR /KL6pediYXSuhPgxXWWEHT3rybucN5EFsxOXYFxrutEhGx2oCWw4hIRbPkWNwsMC DSRnxU9HakGkkt+Rx7RlycHQU+t8EVI8ECQmNuU5yKj0URkz3u/LFvira0ayZYfA C0XfQR/SHZRDt05NVW2AF0lLVXNI5XOMsBnTR4BauRYt9KNET6J+jjACAIgyeKJS VYibQELGhbIdSA66tFwkrLpeGEYhUd4FcK7nOhcXo2zZqJKlAAQF0qQaEsHKo1uA I/2A6S7i3MWXQ6hZdIEq9qJUwFjpssoMSk7yCdHDFJQmYC0bg0dCe543ybJs2Znu qRbEZ+6ZTUe13uViLEO0mccGRKO9QIIJazV4tErqgZ0QoA2A3krErjorjTGMhtLu W+f+vkBbw0GldtieijIoksbmFffN6butfF7pyMjjOayJcoIBqojwcxGGl4GCYKan T+/nm3VU5jmdHWN6Bcaei4jxqQtNn7UfDuAwpqfVFg51SHGIAFHnoEvEOaWZtrJV kD7XBmIbUVvpvKJa3YOHjsMBAHbSMUwO5k9h9mYcW8HXh5aSJHvBtBpcr2Qgxoha TmyLGqfDgbCAfeihF6k9MZxjcDGBpndHZoijlTNUVDsQ29OWvmrwkjKuAdV21WBq toRnQtkRfqrYUViIZZLXMggGrnL4aLnd6+RwsEfVnr5We9Sta0xBnu832vP/BpFS hoOSLfu0OBL8JOafz+gH/ZFRnYzVwZBQ/h724UDWQyZ82oCKRtTYtD1CA3u1X1Qr O2Flr1jAmq6IyDGg2NvDQW8f6Mr0Oq1eufkhTbEVkP86LpQ1tHyNUGO1VEiQYe3Q DYHUt67F2kSYw61YijWpf79hBycrdYOmaWiyLC2ljzn14551LdUdgZ9ac4CF7PdT nvu1yAoD4YPwiReMbJ26NRdB43ks916NLVAj90hGWPZ9UiWuH+wLkwjGfDYzmIT0 jG3kvNwJuLiqbuEAJMBh5puoekVLatxXUeJvIinujr43cilt1uy1yLTwrOqQMNGh n4w+kG5slkpWolxYdAM4cE1/9vbxE0dx7b+w/D/g5LFjD49889KnD/998up3Pz3+ 9fZrK48uXPn6q/Mnjnz7x9rnd35Tj1df/uH8X99/8uKj3/2la/8B =+QyI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp-- ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners