[Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Jacques Garrigue]

A snapshot of O'Caml emacs mode 3.05 is now available at

  http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/soft/olabl/ocaml.html
  ftp://ftp.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/pub/lang/olabl/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz
  ftp://ftp.inria.fr/lang/caml-light/bazar-ocaml/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz

This is just a snapshot of the emacs directory in the distribution
(fixing only one minor bug). This is intended for users of binary
distributions, who did not get this directory.

By the way, if you're still using older versions of the ocaml mode,
you want to update for better indentation, better interaction with the
caml subprocess, and other improvements by Didier Remy.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacques Garrigue      Kyoto University     garrigue at kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp
		<A HREF=http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~garrigue/>JG</A>
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Blair Zajac]

Jacques Garrigue wrote:
> 
> A snapshot of O'Caml emacs mode 3.05 is now available at
> 
>   http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/soft/olabl/ocaml.html
>   ftp://ftp.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/pub/lang/olabl/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz
>   ftp://ftp.inria.fr/lang/caml-light/bazar-ocaml/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz

Anyway you can get this integrated into the standard XEmacs or
Emacs packages, say along with prog-modes?

Best,
Blair

-- 
Blair Zajac <blair@orcaware.com>
Web and OS performance plots - http://www.orcaware.com/orca/
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Jérôme Marant]

On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 10:04:52PM -0700, Blair Zajac wrote:
> Jacques Garrigue wrote:
> > 
> > A snapshot of O'Caml emacs mode 3.05 is now available at
> > 
> >   http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/soft/olabl/ocaml.html
> >   ftp://ftp.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/pub/lang/olabl/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz
> >   ftp://ftp.inria.fr/lang/caml-light/bazar-ocaml/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz
> 
> Anyway you can get this integrated into the standard XEmacs or
> Emacs packages, say along with prog-modes?

  He'll do this only if he accepts to sign papers ;-)

-- 
Jérôme Marant
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Dmitry Bely]

JИrТme Marant <marant.logatique@fr.thalesgroup.com> writes:

>> > A snapshot of O'Caml emacs mode 3.05 is now available at
>> > 
>> >   http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/soft/olabl/ocaml.html
>> >   ftp://ftp.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/pub/lang/olabl/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz
>> >   ftp://ftp.inria.fr/lang/caml-light/bazar-ocaml/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz
>> 
>> Anyway you can get this integrated into the standard XEmacs or
>> Emacs packages, say along with prog-modes?
>
>   He'll do this only if he accepts to sign papers ;-)

For XEmacs they are not required (it's not FSF copyrighted), while Emacs
AFAIK does not have package system yet. So as an XEmacs user, I would be
quite happy to have XEmacs package available.

And two questions regarding the emacs mode itself:
- what is the main difference between tuareg and emacs mode (currently I am
a tuareg user)?
- does any emacs mode supports the revized syntax?

- Dmitry Bely


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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Blair Zajac]

Dmitry Bely wrote:
> 
> Jérôme Marant <marant.logatique@fr.thalesgroup.com> writes:
> 
> >> > A snapshot of O'Caml emacs mode 3.05 is now available at
> >> >
> >> >   http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/soft/olabl/ocaml.html
> >> >   ftp://ftp.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/pub/lang/olabl/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz
> >> >   ftp://ftp.inria.fr/lang/caml-light/bazar-ocaml/ocaml-mode-3.05.tar.gz
> >>
> >> Anyway you can get this integrated into the standard XEmacs or
> >> Emacs packages, say along with prog-modes?
> >
> >   He'll do this only if he accepts to sign papers ;-)
> 
> For XEmacs they are not required (it's not FSF copyrighted), while Emacs
> AFAIK does not have package system yet. So as an XEmacs user, I would be
> quite happy to have XEmacs package available.

Ditto.  If there's a vote, I vote to put it into XEmacs, which I use :)

Best,
Blair

-- 
Blair Zajac <blair@orcaware.com>
Web and OS performance plots - http://www.orcaware.com/orca/
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Jeffrey Palmer]

Can anyone give a quick comparison of the Tuareg ocaml mode and 
ocaml-mode-3.05? Is the indentation better/standardized in one vs. the other, 
support for font-locking, etc.

I'm using Tuareg now, but I was thinking that if this is the "standard" ocaml 
mode, now might be the time to switch.

Thoughts?

	- jeff


-- 
The river is moving.
The blackbird must be flying.

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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Jacques Garrigue]

From: Jeffrey Palmer <jeffrey.palmer@acm.org>

> Can anyone give a quick comparison of the Tuareg ocaml mode and 
> ocaml-mode-3.05? Is the indentation better/standardized in one
> vs. the other, support for font-locking, etc.

I'm not a Tuareg mode user myself (not surprising) but my
understanding is that they have different indentation styles.
ocaml-mode indents like the sources of the ocaml compiler
(mutual relation: it was fashioned after them, and developpers use it)
Tuareg is 
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Alexander V. Voinov]

Hi All,

Jacques Garrigue wrote:
> 
> From: Jeffrey Palmer <jeffrey.palmer@acm.org>
> 
> > Can anyone give a quick comparison of the Tuareg ocaml mode and
> > ocaml-mode-3.05? Is the indentation better/standardized in one
> > vs. the other, support for font-locking, etc.
> 
> I'm not a Tuareg mode user myself (not surprising) 

I'm not in a position to argue on either of these modes, but I use
tuareg and it satisfies all my needs. I only remember that I switched to
it from some other mode which was less satisfactory. 

> but my
> understanding is that they have different indentation styles.
> ocaml-mode indents like the sources of the ocaml compiler
> (mutual relation: it was fashioned after them, and developpers use it)

I'm not sure that this argument is decisive for us, plain users. Add to
this that there is no concensus on the merits of OCaml syntax itself...
There are some extremely experienced FP users among us (not me), who
don't like it. I can't dismiss this fact as something "subjective". I
have no intention to offend you by this, but... this is reality: we are
all different.

Alexander
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Yang Shouxun]

Alexander V. Voinov wrote:

> 
> I'm not sure that this argument is decisive for us, plain users. Add to
> this that there is no concensus on the merits of OCaml syntax itself...
> There are some extremely experienced FP users among us (not me), who
> don't like it. I can't dismiss this fact as something "subjective". I
> have no intention to offend you by this, but... this is reality: we are
> all different.
> 
True. For instance, I'd rather an indentation for every consecutive 
"let...", as in the Lisp style (I learned Scheme and Common Lisp before 
Ocaml). That is, I prefer indentation to graphically show the structure 
of the code, even at the risk of being stretched too much to the right. 
With higher resolution of graphic displays and more careful organization 
of the code, I guess the problem may be less imposing.

I'm using tuareg for it allows me to run ocaml toplevel in emacs. I'm 
not sure the ocaml-mode has such functionality.
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Jacques Garrigue]

From: Yang Shouxun <yangsx@fltrp.com>
> True. For instance, I'd rather an indentation for every consecutive 
> "let...", as in the Lisp style (I learned Scheme and Common Lisp before 
> Ocaml). That is, I prefer indentation to graphically show the structure 
> of the code, even at the risk of being stretched too much to the right. 
> With higher resolution of graphic displays and more careful organization 
> of the code, I guess the problem may be less imposing.

This is mostly a question of taste: I view most of the let's as
assignment, so I prefer not to indent them, since they do no more than
changing a binding.  But lots of people would disagree.

By the way, you can customize this in ocaml-mode too:
  (setq caml-let-in-indent 2)
The default is 0, meaning no indent.

On the other hand, not everything is customizable, and even when
customizable it may be a pain. For instance, I never came around to
allow a global change in the size of indentation: this is 2, or you
have to change it individually for every construct...

> I'm using tuareg for it allows me to run ocaml toplevel in emacs. I'm 
> not sure the ocaml-mode has such functionality.

Let's stop such blaring disinformation:
running the ocaml toplevel under emacs was the original goal of the caml
mode, and this already worked more than 10 years ago.
Thanks to Didier it is now pretty clever about errors, but then Tuareg
might be just as clever.

Jacques Garrigue
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Yang Shouxun]

Jacques Garrigue wrote:

>>True. For instance, I'd rather an indentation for every consecutive 
>>"let...", as in the Lisp style (I learned Scheme and Common Lisp before 
>>Ocaml). That is, I prefer indentation to graphically show the structure 
>>of the code, even at the risk of being stretched too much to the right. 
>>With higher resolution of graphic displays and more careful organization 
>>of the code, I guess the problem may be less imposing.

> By the way, you can customize this in ocaml-mode too:
>   (setq caml-let-in-indent 2)
> The default is 0, meaning no indent.

Thanks. In tuareg there is an option "Force indentation after 'let'", 
but it seems not working as I expect it. Or I miss something here.

>>I'm using tuareg for it allows me to run ocaml toplevel in emacs. I'm 
>>not sure the ocaml-mode has such functionality.
> 
> Let's stop such blaring disinformation:

Sorry, I just didn't know how to do that with ocaml-mode when I last 
tried, but I see now. IIRC, I didn't find it out the first time because 
I used "apropos ocaml" instead of "apropos caml" and I didn't search the 
caml menu. On the other hand, "apropos tuareg" gave me what I was 
looking for.
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ocaml-info. was: Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Alexander V.Voinov]

Hi All,

Once we mentioned emacs in the context of OCaml, can we discuss
the current state of the corresponding info files? There are 
some glitches, like these two:

1) keyword search does not work through chapters;
2) One can't ascend to the info top level by pressing 'u'.

The latter is annoying if one wants to see some other manuals. They
become locked out.

Or did I do something wrong? Does anybody use OCaml manual in the form
of info pages?

Alexander

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Re: ocaml-info. was: Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Henrik Motakef]

"Alexander V.Voinov" <avv@quasar.ipa.nw.ru> writes:

> 2) One can't ascend to the info top level by pressing 'u'.

'd' (for 'directory') should work.

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Re: ocaml-info. was: Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Olivier Andrieu]

 Alexander V.Voinov [Monday 12 August 2002] :
 >
 > Hi All,
 > 
 > Once we mentioned emacs in the context of OCaml, can we discuss
 > the current state of the corresponding info files? There are 
 > some glitches, like these two:
 > 
 > 1) keyword search does not work through chapters;
 > 2) One can't ascend to the info top level by pressing 'u'.
 > 
 > The latter is annoying if one wants to see some other manuals. They
 > become locked out.
 > 
 > Or did I do something wrong? Does anybody use OCaml manual in the form
 > of info pages?

If you're interested in the documentation for the standard library
modules (and not the compilers manuals nor the introduction), you can
use ocamldoc-generated Info files. These look more like regular GNU
Info documentation. And there's some caml-help.el helper code in the
ocaml distribution for searching keywords.

I packaged these Info files here :
http://oandrieu.nerim.net/ocaml/ocaml.info.tar.gz

-- 
   Olivier
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Re: ocaml-info. was: Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Alexander V.Voinov]

Hi Olivier,

Thank you, it's a useful selection. I would add C api to it.

Alexander

From: Olivier Andrieu <andrieu@ijm.jussieu.fr>
Subject: Re: ocaml-info. was: Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:23:23 +0200

>  Alexander V.Voinov [Monday 12 August 2002] :
>  >
>  > Hi All,
>  > 
>  > Once we mentioned emacs in the context of OCaml, can we discuss
>  > the current state of the corresponding info files? There are 
>  > some glitches, like these two:
>  > 
>  > 1) keyword search does not work through chapters;
>  > 2) One can't ascend to the info top level by pressing 'u'.
>  > 
>  > The latter is annoying if one wants to see some other manuals. They
>  > become locked out.
>  > 
>  > Or did I do something wrong? Does anybody use OCaml manual in the form
>  > of info pages?
> 
> If you're interested in the documentation for the standard library
> modules (and not the compilers manuals nor the introduction), you can
> use ocamldoc-generated Info files. These look more like regular GNU
> Info documentation. And there's some caml-help.el helper code in the
> ocaml distribution for searching keywords.
> 
> I packaged these Info files here :
> http://oandrieu.nerim.net/ocaml/ocaml.info.tar.gz
> 
> -- 
>    Olivier
> 
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Sven LUTHER]

On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 08:50:59AM +0900, Jacques Garrigue wrote:
> From: Yang Shouxun <yangsx@fltrp.com>
> > True. For instance, I'd rather an indentation for every consecutive 
> > "let...", as in the Lisp style (I learned Scheme and Common Lisp before 
> > Ocaml). That is, I prefer indentation to graphically show the structure 
> > of the code, even at the risk of being stretched too much to the right. 
> > With higher resolution of graphic displays and more careful organization 
> > of the code, I guess the problem may be less imposing.
> 
> This is mostly a question of taste: I view most of the let's as
> assignment, so I prefer not to indent them, since they do no more than
> changing a binding.  But lots of people would disagree.
> 
> By the way, you can customize this in ocaml-mode too:
>   (setq caml-let-in-indent 2)
> The default is 0, meaning no indent.
> 
> On the other hand, not everything is customizable, and even when
> customizable it may be a pain. For instance, I never came around to
> allow a global change in the size of indentation: this is 2, or you
> have to change it individually for every construct...
> 
> > I'm using tuareg for it allows me to run ocaml toplevel in emacs. I'm 
> > not sure the ocaml-mode has such functionality.
> 
> Let's stop such blaring disinformation:
> running the ocaml toplevel under emacs was the original goal of the caml
> mode, and this already worked more than 10 years ago.
> Thanks to Didier it is now pretty clever about errors, but then Tuareg
> might be just as clever.

Jacques, ...

This is the same caml mode that comes with the ocaml sources, isn't it ?

It is just some changes that you did after the 3.05 release, and which
will go into 3.06, or do you intent to distribute them separatedly ?

Friendly,

Sven Luther
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Jacques Garrigue]

From: Sven LUTHER <luther@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

> This is the same caml mode that comes with the ocaml sources, isn't it ?
> 
> It is just some changes that you did after the 3.05 release, and which
> will go into 3.06, or do you intent to distribute them separatedly ?

Yes, the name is ocaml-mode-3.05, but the contents is ocaml-3.06/emacs...
This is only a snapshot, to help users without the sources, and
packagers who want to package the mode separately.

     Jacques Garrigue
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Michael Vanier]

> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 22:25:18 -0700
> From: "Alexander V. Voinov" <avv@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Jacques Garrigue wrote:
> > 
> > From: Jeffrey Palmer <jeffrey.palmer@acm.org>
> > 
> > > Can anyone give a quick comparison of the Tuareg ocaml mode and
> > > ocaml-mode-3.05? Is the indentation better/standardized in one
> > > vs. the other, support for font-locking, etc.
> > 
> > I'm not a Tuareg mode user myself (not surprising) 
> 
> I'm not in a position to argue on either of these modes, but I use
> tuareg and it satisfies all my needs. I only remember that I switched to
> it from some other mode which was less satisfactory. 
> 

Although the standard ocaml mode is fine for me when it works, there's one
thing about it that really annoys me: occasionally the indenting engine
gets confused and then totally refuses to do the right thing from then on.
I have to manually re-load the caml-mode emacs files to fix it.  Another
thing I don't like is that caml-mode doesn't treat nested comments
correctly as far as syntax coloring is concerned.  I guess I should give
tuareg a try.

Mike
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Jacques Garrigue]

Sorry, I didn't intend to post this one (pressed the wrong key).
Let the people who actually use the newest version of both modes do
the talking (it this exists).

From: Jacques Garrigue <garrigue@kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp>
> I'm not a Tuareg mode user myself (not surprising) but my
> understanding is that they have different indentation styles.
[..]
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[David Fox]

Jeffrey Palmer <jeffrey.palmer@acm.org> writes:

> Can anyone give a quick comparison of the Tuareg ocaml mode and 
> ocaml-mode-3.05? Is the indentation better/standardized in one vs. the other, 
> support for font-locking, etc.
> 
> I'm using Tuareg now, but I was thinking that if this is the
> "standard" ocaml mode, now might be the time to switch.

I just tried out ocaml-mode-3.05, but it is difficult to perform a
comparison because the colorization of the two modes is quite
different and customization is not straightforward.  It would be
unfair to do a comparison without first minimizing the gratuitous
differences between the two.  I did notice that when I loaded a buffer
in ocaml-mode the comments were not colorized properly, though when I
toggled font-lock mode off and on they came out right.  This is also
my main problem with tuareg mode - mysterious colorization behavior.
I'm pretty sure the indentation will not be a big issue for me.
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[Jacques Garrigue]

From: David Fox <david@lindows.com>

> I did notice that when I loaded a buffer
> in ocaml-mode the comments were not colorized properly, though when I
> toggled font-lock mode off and on they came out right.

This is a bit strange: when you load a file, ocaml-mode colorize the
whole buffer, just as when toggle on-and-off, or use font-lock-fontify
buffer. So the result should not differ.
However, as soon as you edit the text, colorization is done
individually on each modified line, and may come out incorect.

> This is also my main problem with tuareg mode - mysterious
> colorization behavior.

You're pretty much limited by font-lock's capabilities.
Which means no support for incremental multiline colorizing.
No surprise you encounter the same problems.

> I'm pretty sure the indentation will not be a big issue for me.

Then any mode should please you: in ocaml-mode colorizing is less than
100 lines (just regular expression, that you may twiddle yourself if
you want), while indentation is more than 1000 (most of caml.el).
There is a huge gap in complexity, because caml syntax is so
unstructured.

Jacques Garrigue
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Re: [Caml-list] ocaml-mode-3.05

[David Fox]

Jacques Garrigue <garrigue@kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp> writes:

> From: David Fox <david@lindows.com>
> 
> > I'm pretty sure the indentation will not be a big issue for me.
> 
> Then any mode should please you: in ocaml-mode colorizing is less than
> 100 lines (just regular expression, that you may twiddle yourself if
> you want), while indentation is more than 1000 (most of caml.el).
> There is a huge gap in complexity, because caml syntax is so
> unstructured.

Now that I think harder, indentation *has* sometimes been an issue for
me in Tuareg mode.  Particularly when splitting expressions across
lines.  Its just that not being used to the new color scheme makes it
difficult to switch back and forth for comparison.
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