From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id KAA07890; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:52:40 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08850 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:52:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from verdot.inria.fr (verdot.inria.fr [128.93.11.7]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g978qc520414 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:52:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ddr@localhost) by verdot.inria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25764 for caml-list@inria.fr; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:52:38 +0200 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:52:38 +0200 From: Daniel de Rauglaudre To: caml-list@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Threats on future of Camlp4 Message-ID: <20021007105238.B25685@verdot.inria.fr> References: <20021006205517.B19829@verdot.inria.fr> <20021007072153.GA1326@iliana> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20021007072153.GA1326@iliana>; from luther@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr on Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 09:21:53AM +0200 Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk Hi, On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 09:21:53AM +0200, Sven LUTHER wrote: > Daniel, the one problem i have with separating camlp4 from ocaml, is > that, if i remember well, the standalone camlp4 needed access to the > ocaml sources to build. No: Camlp4 is really an independant program. Yes it uses some files of ocaml, but they are duplicated in the Camlp4 sources (directory ocaml_stuff). Between parentheses, these copied sources are the OCaml syntax tree, which are not installed in the OCaml library. I had asked that they are installed, like are installed some ".h" files, but it has been refused. However, it would be useful, if people want to create another preprocessor or use the OCaml syntax tree. > If we separate again, what will be the situation on this same topic ? > will you again depend on the ocaml source ? Is there not a cleaner > solution for this ? Programs often depend on versions of a compiler, for example with the associated library. > And also i am curious, what is so difficult with continuing to release > camlp4 as part of ocaml, but have a separate CVS tree for developpment, > that you sync with ocaml from time to time (and probably before each new > release), in the same way as DRI for example maintains a separate > development tree from XFree86 ? I don't know the story of DRI and XFree86. The point is that I refuse to sync: I consider that the ocaml team is not ready for the industrialization level, although it pretends, because, at this level, some "liberty of expression" should be more controlled. It is abnormal that some member of the team considers that he is free to tell the industrial contacts that the work of another member is "not serious". Can you imagine what happens if the second of Microsoft tells to a customer that Windows is "not serious"? The guy would be dismissed. I shall return working inside the ocaml directory, if and only if the ocaml team behave as professionnals. Another example: I was very shocked, some time ago, that the icon of Caml Light was "Joe Camel". Very funny, for students, but serious at industialization level. When I said that, they laughed at me, telling that I have no sense of humour. Sorry, 6 millions deaths by cancer of lung EACH YEAR in the world does not make me laugh. And the free ad of a seller of tobacco is serious and important. I don't want to be a party to that. Industrials don't have a "sense of humour", I am sorry. I am absolutely sure that we have lost customers because of that. Even the name "Caml Light" is absolutely suspect: students in France are learning it. And some of them go here to make a thesis, or an a training course and bring their packets of Camel, that they smoke, and smile at that. Perhaps they think that we accept them better if they smoke Camels? Therefore, the ocaml team is not professionnal, I am sorry. -- Daniel de RAUGLAUDRE daniel.de_rauglaudre@inria.fr http://cristal.inria.fr/~ddr/ ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners