From: Eray Ozkural <erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr>
To: Dave Berry <daveb@tardis.ed.ac.uk>,
Markus Mottl <markus@oefai.at>, Oleg <oleg_inconnu@myrealbox.com>
Cc: OCaml <caml-list@inria.fr>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvement
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:38:58 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200210151138.58478.erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020714213245.00a37f00@pop3.btclick.com>
On Sunday 14 July 2002 23:44, Dave Berry wrote:
> As a commercial manager, I've seen a productivity improvement of about 50%
> using Java over C++ -- mainly arising from automatic memory management, and
> a slightly cleaner language. I would expect OCaml to have that 50%, and
> perhaps another for a more expressive type system, making 2:1. For some
> problems, e.g. compilers, the increase might be more, say 3:1 or 4:1. For
> comparison, this is also the productivity improvement I'd expect to see
> using Visual Basic over C/C++ for small GUI/Database problems.
I'd expect a much higher ratio for compilers or any form of symbolic
computation. Having went through a few C++ compilers recently I would say
more than 1:10. The problem is that I don't have a C++ compiler written in
ocaml in front of me, so that's just a guess ;) However, compilers for
languages with more complex semantics (like Haskell) seems to be achievable
in the magnitude of a few ten thousands of lines while your casual Mono
compiler took some 10^6 lines in C if you will remember. That ratio would be
something like 1:30, 1:40 against C, and I suspect it would still be 1:10 to
1:20 for C++.
For a C++ compiler, the ratio would be about the same since C++ has simpler
semantics but a more involved syntax than well designed languages. Hence more
code for syntax, less code for semantics in the case of C++ probably making
the compiler as complex as Haskell.
That ratio would wildly change with respect to design of the compiler of
course. There are lots of choices even in the simplest matters. Not to
mention the need for a good programmer. A bad programmer can eventually
manage to blow up the code size worse than a good C++ implementation ;)
Just a rough comparison,
--
Eray Ozkural <erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr>
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
GPG public key fingerprint: 360C 852F 88B0 A745 F31B EA0F 7C07 AE16 874D 539C
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-10-15 10:34 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-07-08 19:53 [Caml-list] " Oleg
2002-07-08 20:14 ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-10 15:50 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-10 18:56 ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-10 19:09 ` Jun P.FURUSE
2002-07-11 23:43 ` Pierre Weis
[not found] ` <15657.61603.221054.289184@spike.artisan.com>
2002-07-09 4:43 ` [Caml-list] Universal Serializer (was: productivity improvement) Oleg
2002-07-09 7:56 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2002-07-09 7:59 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2002-07-10 16:06 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-10 22:29 ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-11 8:13 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2002-07-12 12:41 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-14 12:25 ` [Caml-list] Statically detecting arrays bound exceptions ?? (was: Universal Serializer) Berke Durak
2002-07-14 13:24 ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-15 8:23 ` Xavier Leroy
2002-07-15 8:39 ` Noel Welsh
2002-07-15 21:22 ` Oleg
2002-07-15 22:44 ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-16 6:43 ` Florian Hars
2002-07-16 20:22 ` [Caml-list] " John Max Skaller
2002-07-16 20:36 ` Johan Baltié
2002-07-16 20:55 ` Hao-yang Wang
2002-07-17 8:25 ` Noel Welsh
2002-07-12 1:41 ` [Caml-list] Universal Serializer (was: productivity improvement) Eray Ozkural
2002-07-12 8:10 ` [Caml-list] OCaml QT bindings Stefano Zacchiroli
2002-07-12 17:30 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-12 10:37 ` [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvement Oleg
2002-07-12 11:23 ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 11:34 ` Oleg
2002-07-12 11:43 ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 12:59 ` Pierre Weis
2002-07-12 16:42 ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-14 20:44 ` Dave Berry
2002-07-14 22:13 ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-15 16:43 ` Alwyn Goodloe
2002-07-16 20:14 ` Dave Berry
2002-07-17 3:21 ` Eric Merritt
2002-07-15 9:39 ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-10-15 8:38 ` Eray Ozkural [this message]
2002-10-17 21:27 ` Dave Berry
2002-10-18 2:48 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-20 12:46 ` Dave Berry
2002-10-21 6:11 ` Michael Vanier
2003-05-10 20:41 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-12 11:43 ` Noel Welsh
2002-07-12 12:10 ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 13:44 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 16:19 ` Alan Schmitt
2002-07-12 20:41 ` John Carr
2002-07-13 21:19 ` [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvementu Pierre Weis
2002-07-12 21:24 ` [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvement Brian Smith
2002-10-15 8:57 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-15 11:50 ` [Caml-list] eproductivity improvement Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-09 12:45 ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement Basile STARYNKEVITCH
2002-07-09 18:20 ` Shannon --jj Behrens
2002-07-09 19:16 ` Oleg
2002-07-09 20:31 ` Shannon --jj Behrens
2002-07-10 10:02 ` sebastien FURIC
2002-07-10 11:58 ` Dave Mason
2002-07-10 13:11 ` sebastien FURIC
2002-07-10 19:22 ` nadji
2002-07-10 20:15 ` Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages (Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement) Oleg
2002-07-10 20:34 ` [Caml-list] " William D. Neumann
2002-07-10 20:47 ` [Caml-list] Re: Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages Alexander V.Voinov
2002-07-10 21:16 ` William D. Neumann
2002-07-10 20:49 ` [Caml-list] Re: Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages (Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement) William D. Neumann
2002-07-11 22:30 ` [Caml-list] Array.resize ? Oleg
2002-07-11 23:06 ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-12 13:01 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 18:24 ` Shawn Wagner
2002-07-11 23:31 ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 12:54 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 13:23 ` Olivier Andrieu
2002-07-12 14:05 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 16:09 ` Brian Rogoff
2002-10-19 9:16 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-19 22:15 ` [Caml-list] debugger losing contact with debuggee process Lex Stein
2002-10-20 10:06 ` Pierre Weis
2002-10-21 9:11 ` Xavier Leroy
2002-10-18 3:05 ` [Caml-list] Array.resize ? Eray Ozkural
2002-10-19 1:51 ` Oleg
2003-05-10 20:24 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-10 20:48 ` Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages (Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement) Markus Mottl
2002-07-11 5:53 ` Anton E. Moscal
2002-10-18 3:07 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-10 15:39 ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement John Max Skaller
2002-07-11 8:57 ` Nicolas barnier
2002-07-12 12:16 ` [Caml-list] Is this a bug? John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 14:05 ` Xavier Leroy
2002-07-16 3:34 ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement Oleg
2002-10-18 3:13 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-15 6:00 [Caml-list] " Ohad Rodeh
2002-07-16 20:18 ` Dave Berry
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