From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id GAA06670; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:33:54 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA06539 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:33:53 +0100 (MET) Received: from swordfish ([216.241.35.41]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0O5Xpr15246 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:33:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18bwTC-0006gD-00 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:33:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:33:37 -0700 From: Matt Gushee To: caml-list@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: License wars Message-ID: <20030124053337.GA25551@swordfish> Reply-To: Matt Gushee Mail-Followup-To: caml-list@inria.fr References: <022e01c2bd5b$1cb988b0$0a00a8c0@gateway> <15915.65485.636419.969429@lachesis.inria.fr> <20030120164653.GA6351@swordfish> <87ptqpunpk.fsf_-_@ketanu.dyndns.org> <3E2FC73D.1030003@baretta.com> <20030116103038.GA18198@swordfish> <022e01c2bd5b$1cb988b0$0a00a8c0@gateway> <15915.65485.636419.969429@lachesis.inria.fr> <20030120164653.GA6351@swordfish> <87ptqpunpk.fsf_-_@ketanu.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <3E2FC73D.1030003@baretta.com> <87ptqpunpk.fsf_-_@ketanu.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 05:57:27PM +0100, Michaël Grünewald wrote: > > > should know what they just agreed to. And unfortunately, most software > > licenses never get read; they're just too damn long and complex. If > > you're an open source developer, you have probably read the GPL, but I'd > > wager most end users haven't. And you have undoubtedly also used > > Microsoft products. Have you ever read their EULA in its entirety? I bet > > you haven't. > > Oh, these poor little users that want to use software without any > effort, that's so lovely ... > > Any computer user must have read and understood the licence (or, less > bad than nothing, a digest) of the software it uses. This is pointless > to care of the ones that do not. Even if they come from the whole > majority, faults must not be agreed but fighted against. In principle I agree that users should not expect to be able to use software without effort. I certainly have invested considerable effort to develop my own skills, both as a user and a developer, and I am proud that I have done so (and continue to do so). But I also believe that computers and software developers should serve society, not vice versa. You are entitled to take whatever attitude you choose toward users; I choose a different attitude from yours. One reason is that I am interested in using my software to attract consulting business, and perhaps at some point to develop a commercial product. So for me, users are potentially customers, and if I made statements like yours I would not have any customers (actually I have none right now anyway, but I'm working on that ;-). You should also note that I am an American living in the U.S., and you have to be a little bit stupid to get along in this society. That is one of many things I don't like about American culture, but there's not very much that one person can do about it. I agree with you also that one should fight for principles and right-thinking, but you have to be moderate if you want people to listen ... at least I, in my country, have to; maybe your situation is different. In any case, if I were uninterested in challenging the status quo, I wouldn't be using OCaml, would I? -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners