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From: Fred Yankowski <fred@ontosys.com>
Cc: caml-list@inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] OCaml popularity
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:26:27 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030311162627.GA32188@ontosoft.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <005d01c2e76f$92d0f8b0$2713f9ca@WARP>

Richard Gabriel, author of the famous "Worse is Better" paper about
C/Unix vs Lisp, makes some interesting points in his recent book while
discussing his theory of what it takes for a programming language to
be accepted and evolve:

    The second mandatory feature is that the language cannot require
    mathematical sophistication from its users. Programmers are not
    mathematicians, no matter how much we wish and wish for it. And I
    don't mean sophisticated mathematicians, but just people who can
    think precisely and rigorously in the way that mathematicians can.

    For example, to most language theorists the purpose of types is to
    enable the compiler to reason about the correctness of a program
    in at least skeletal terms. Such reasoning can produce programs
    with no run-time type errors. Strict type systems along with other
    exemplary behavior, moreover, enable certain proofs about
    programs.

    Well, the average programmer might be grateful somewhere in his
    heart for the lack of run-time type errors, but all he or she
    really cares about is that the compiler can produce good code, and
    types help compiler writers write compilers that do that.

    Furthermore, types that try to do more than that are a hindrance
    to understanding. For example, abstract data types allow one to
    write programs in which the interface is completely separate from
    the implementation. Perhaps some large programming teams care a
    lot about that, but a lot of programming goes on in ones and twos,
    maybe threes. Types of this variety, with complicated syntax and
    baffling semantics, is a hindrance to programming for many of
    these folks. Sure, someday this will be important as the size of
    programming teams increases and as the level of mathematics
    education increases (no laughing, please), but today it is not.

    Inheritance and polymorphism are examples of programming language
    concepts requiring mathematical sophistication to understand.

[From "Patterns of Software", 1996, Richard P. Gabriel, chapter titled
"The End of History and the Last Programming Language"]


-- 
Fred Yankowski      fred@ontosys.com           tel: +1.630.879.1312
OntoSys, Inc	    PGP keyID: 7B449345        fax: +1.630.879.1370
www.ontosys.com     38W242 Deerpath Rd, Batavia, IL 60510-9461, USA

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-03-11 16:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 103+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-03-06 23:27 Graham Guttocks
2003-03-10 20:43 ` Paul Steckler
2003-03-10 23:48 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2003-03-11  0:18   ` Brian Hurt
2003-03-17 23:49   ` Graham Guttocks
2003-03-11  1:43 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2003-03-11 10:23   ` Pierre Weis
2003-03-11 14:27     ` Guillaume Marceau
2003-03-11 16:16       ` David Brown
2003-03-11 16:47       ` [Caml-list] about -rectypes Christophe Raffalli
2003-03-12  2:32       ` [Caml-list] OCaml popularity Nicolas Cannasse
2003-03-12  3:55         ` Cross-platform GUI (was Re: [Caml-list] OCaml popularity) mgushee
2003-03-12 10:51         ` [Caml-list] OCaml popularity Alex Romadinoff
2003-03-12 18:24         ` Max Kirillov
2003-03-11 19:02     ` Graham Guttocks
2003-03-12 17:12       ` Richard W.M. Jones
2003-03-12 18:08         ` Alwyn Goodloe
2003-03-12 22:34           ` Michael Schuerig
2003-03-12 23:13             ` Martin Weber
2003-03-12 23:35               ` Michael Schuerig
2003-03-13  8:02                 ` Alessandro Baretta
2003-03-13 10:23                   ` Michael Schuerig
2003-03-12 23:35             ` Brian Hurt
2003-03-12 23:18         ` Daniel Bünzli
2003-03-12 23:47           ` Brian Hurt
2003-03-13  2:15         ` William Lovas
2003-03-13  3:44           ` Graham Guttocks
2003-03-13  9:31           ` Richard W.M. Jones
     [not found]           ` <20030313095232.GC347@first.in-berlin.de>
2003-03-13 20:50             ` William Lovas
2003-03-13 21:17               ` Oliver Bandel
2003-03-13 22:01                 ` Brian Hurt
2003-03-13 22:17                 ` Oliver Bandel
2003-03-14  6:33                 ` Michal Moskal
2003-03-14 11:50                   ` Markus Mottl
2003-03-14 15:38                     ` Oliver Bandel
2003-03-14 10:13               ` MikhailFedotov
2003-03-14 10:30                 ` Johann Spies
2003-03-13  8:09       ` Pierre Weis
2003-03-15  1:43     ` Tushar Samant
2003-03-15  8:19       ` Andreas Eder
2003-03-11 16:26   ` Fred Yankowski [this message]
2003-03-11 19:47     ` [Caml-list] OCaml popularity (long!) mgushee
2003-03-12 11:23       ` Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons
2003-03-30  5:59         ` Belated thanks (was Re: [Caml-list] OCaml popularity) Matt Gushee
2003-03-31 15:27           ` [Caml-list] Re: Belated thanks cashin
2003-04-01  8:22           ` Belated thanks (was Re: [Caml-list] OCaml popularity) Johann Spies
2003-03-12 20:41       ` [Caml-list] OCaml popularity (long!) Max Kirillov
2003-03-13  2:36         ` Haskell-like syntax (was: [Caml-list] OCaml popularity (long!)) Oleg
2003-03-13 18:33           ` [Caml-list] Re: Haskell-like syntax Max Kirillov
2003-03-14 19:30             ` Max Kirillov
2003-03-14 19:47               ` Max Kirillov
2003-03-14 20:01               ` Seth Kurtzberg
2003-03-14 20:34                 ` brogoff
2003-03-14 21:17                   ` Sebastien Carlier
2003-03-14 21:51                     ` brogoff
2003-03-15  2:27                 ` Max Kirillov
2003-03-15 10:58                   ` Markus Mottl
2003-03-15 15:52                     ` [Caml-list] globally valid symbols (was: Haskell-like syntax) Max Kirillov
2003-03-15 20:16                     ` [Caml-list] Re: Haskell-like syntax David Brown
2003-03-16  5:28                     ` Module recursion (Was Re: [Caml-list] Re: Haskell-like syntax) brogoff
2003-03-16 11:10                       ` Markus Mottl
2003-03-16 18:02                         ` brogoff
2003-03-16 18:34                           ` Markus Mottl
     [not found]                     ` <Pine.LNX.4.44.0303152112560.27230-100000@grace.speakeasy.n et>
2003-03-16  5:38                       ` Chris Hecker
2003-03-16 18:34                         ` brogoff
2003-03-17  2:20                           ` Jacques Garrigue
     [not found]                         ` <Pine.LNX.4.44.0303161020480.11736-100000@grace.speakeasy.n et>
2003-03-17  5:08                           ` Chris Hecker
2003-03-17 17:06                             ` brogoff
2003-03-17 19:01                               ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
     [not found]                             ` <Pine.LNX.4.44.0303170836240.29039-100000@grace.speakeasy.n et>
2003-03-17 19:33                               ` Chris Hecker
2003-03-17 20:28                                 ` brogoff
     [not found]                                 ` <Pine.LNX.4.44.0303171145500.29039-100000@grace.speakeasy.n et>
2003-03-17 21:09                                   ` Chris Hecker
2003-03-19  2:34                                 ` [Caml-list] ocamlopt speed (was Re: Module recursion) Chris Hecker
2003-03-19 10:03                                   ` Michal Moskal
2003-03-19 10:38                                     ` Gerd Stolpmann
2003-03-19 20:36                                   ` Chris Hecker
2003-03-17  1:46                     ` [Caml-list] Re: Haskell-like syntax Nicolas Cannasse
2003-03-14 22:50               ` Oleg
2003-03-20 15:01                 ` Andreas Rossberg
2003-03-12 20:46       ` [Caml-list] Monads was OCaml popularity Christophe Raffalli
2003-03-13  0:03       ` [Caml-list] monads for dummies james woodyatt
2003-03-13  4:32         ` Christopher Quinn
2003-03-13 11:53         ` Christian Lindig
2003-03-12 18:59 ` [Caml-list] OCaml popularity Martin Weber
2003-03-12 20:24   ` Xavier Leroy
2003-03-13  8:57     ` [Caml-list] how to interface with integer Bigarrays using camlidl francois bereux
2003-03-13  9:36       ` Xavier Leroy
2003-03-13  0:42   ` [Caml-list] OCaml popularity Graham Guttocks
2003-03-12 17:40 isaac gouy
2003-03-12 23:53 [oliver: Re: [Caml-list] OCaml popularity] Oliver Bandel
2003-03-13  1:34 ` [Caml-list] OCaml popularity Michael Schuerig
2003-03-13  7:09 Daniel M. Albro
2003-03-13 16:48 ` Neel Krishnaswami
2003-03-13 21:29 ` Karl Zilles
2003-03-13 21:36   ` Daniel M. Albro
2003-03-13 21:42   ` Daniel M. Albro
     [not found]     ` <15985.1204.814698.939943@h00045a4799d6.ne.client2.attbi.com>
2003-03-14  5:49       ` Daniel M. Albro
2003-03-14  9:05         ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
2003-03-14  9:13           ` Daniel M. Albro
2003-03-13 21:53   ` Brian Hurt
2003-03-13 14:39 [oliver: Re: [Caml-list] OCaml popularity] Oliver Bandel
2003-03-13 16:35 ` [Caml-list] OCaml popularity Michael Schuerig
2003-03-14 22:14 Daniel M. Albro
2003-03-15 16:27 Oliver Bandel
2003-03-15 17:55 ` Sergey Goldgaber

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