From: Matt Gushee <mgushee@havenrock.com>
To: caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr
Subject: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:56:38 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20040318085638.GA11753@swordfish> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20040318001905.36025.qmail@web41206.mail.yahoo.com>
On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 04:19:05PM -0800, Vasili Galchin wrote:
> > and so, those of us who have created bindings for
> > other Posix functions
> > should
> > try to work with them to get our code merged. This
> Eric, it sounds to me that you and I are on the
> same page, i.e. in total agreement. What prompted my
> posting is that I feel a tad frustrated when I read
> code that I believe is very good (e.g. Georgi's ipv6
> socket code where he split socket stuff out from
> unix.ml by itself making readibility much better and
> esaier multiple people to work and not having big
> merge problems) and I hear about other code. In both
> cases, these new code seems to have been sitting
> around and not code reviewed and put into CVS, where
> it should be. Also there is a danger of some
> divergence because someone will use some of this
> non-checked in code and it becomes defacto standard.
> So, OCaml community, how do we move forward to get
> this new processed and potentially merged into the
> mainline.
(Sorry about the grandiose title. I have nothing suitably profound to
say ... just couldn't think of a better way to express the subject.)
I wonder if it is possible to persuade INRIA to do anything.
I have no inside information on the process at INRIA, but my impression
from reading this list over the past year or so is:
1) The OCaml team at INRIA care about the community, but there are too
few of them to meet all our needs, and I suppose their work is also
subject to institutional pressures that we are only vaguely aware
of. Maybe they are struggling to keep enough resources for OCaml
work.
2) INRIA as an institution finds it convenient to release OCaml as open
source, but doesn't really care about the community. They benignly
neglect everything that doesn't relate to their research goals.
3) OCaml-as-project (i.e. I'm talking about how OCaml is developed, not
what it is) is a fragile enterprise. E.g., one developer leaves, and
the future of Camlp4 becomes uncertain. Not good.
I'm not saying you should give up hope just yet, but maybe it's time to
consider alternatives.
What if there were an "OCaml Community Library Project"--a group outside
INRIA that would take responsibility for extending and perhaps partially
replacing the standard library--maybe a bit like the current ExtLib
project, only more extensive (BTW, why are there two ExtLibs?? One of
you change the name, please! Thank you.). Maybe if that project showed
itself to be responsible, credible, reliable, etc. etc., after a while
it could become the de facto standard library.
The idealistic scenario is a division of labor wherein INRIA continues
to develop the parts of OCaml that are interesting to them, while other
parts (of more interest to those of us working to create practical
and/or commercial software) would be taken over by the community.
I can't say whether this idea is feasible, or whether INRIA would be
willing to go along with it, but maybe it's something to consider.
--
Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way,
Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through
mgushee@havenrock.com its fields;
http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way,
Horses bear soldiers through
its streets.
--Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.)
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-03-18 8:56 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 127+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-03-09 17:30 [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library Vasili Galchin
2004-03-09 17:55 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-09 18:11 ` Shawn Wagner
2004-03-15 19:44 ` Eric Stokes
2004-03-16 5:32 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-17 15:52 ` Eric Stokes
2004-03-18 0:19 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-18 8:56 ` Matt Gushee [this message]
2004-03-18 10:31 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Richard Jones
2004-03-18 11:22 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2004-03-18 11:18 ` Wolfgang Müller
2004-03-18 11:55 ` Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons
2004-03-18 12:42 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-18 14:12 ` Xavier Leroy
2004-03-18 17:18 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-18 17:56 ` Alex Baretta
2004-03-18 18:33 ` Markus Mottl
2004-03-19 10:58 ` [Caml-list] Structuring the Caml community Christophe TROESTLER
2004-03-19 18:29 ` Yamagata Yoriyuki
2004-03-18 23:44 ` [Caml-list] Structuring the Caml community (Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar) Alain.Frisch
2004-03-19 8:36 ` Oliver Bandel
2004-03-19 19:03 ` Eric Stokes
2004-03-19 22:34 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-19 22:58 ` Matthew O'Connor
2004-03-19 23:15 ` Eric Stokes
2004-03-19 23:23 ` Karl Zilles
2004-03-20 10:10 ` ocaml.org (was: Re: [Caml-list] Structuring the Caml community (Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar)) Richard Jones
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403201143290.2678-100000@lcmpc4.epfl.ch>
2004-03-20 10:47 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-18 23:41 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-19 0:47 ` Kenneth Knowles
2004-03-19 8:54 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-19 12:29 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-19 12:44 ` [Caml-list] Proposed community structure (was Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar) Benjamin Geer
2004-03-19 17:30 ` [Caml-list] " Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-20 6:30 ` Matt Gushee
2004-03-20 6:49 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-20 13:19 ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
2004-03-20 19:03 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-20 11:23 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-20 16:46 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-20 13:07 ` [Caml-list] Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar Dmitry Bely
2004-03-20 15:55 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-20 20:09 ` brogoff
2004-03-18 12:55 ` Alex Baretta
2004-03-19 8:54 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Sven Luther
2004-03-19 9:12 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-18 13:12 ` John Carr
2004-03-18 13:56 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-18 18:41 ` Oliver Bandel
2004-03-18 20:10 ` John Carr
2004-03-18 23:20 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-19 1:30 ` Jacques Garrigue
2004-03-19 5:10 ` skaller
2004-03-19 8:41 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 8:58 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-19 9:13 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 10:03 ` Alex Baretta
2004-03-19 10:17 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 11:49 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-19 12:20 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-19 12:31 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 12:34 ` Issac Trotts
2004-03-21 9:13 ` skaller
2004-03-21 20:05 ` Issac Trotts
[not found] ` <1079927683.3165.73.camel@pelican.wigram>
2004-03-22 6:51 ` Issac Trotts
2004-03-23 19:48 ` skaller
2004-03-23 22:16 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-04-03 6:36 ` Dustin Sallings
2004-04-03 7:43 ` Kenneth Knowles
2004-04-05 7:50 ` Dustin Sallings
2004-04-06 4:20 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-04-06 7:24 ` skaller
2004-04-06 17:24 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-04-06 17:38 ` Kip Macy
2004-04-07 23:11 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-04-07 23:08 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-04-07 23:31 ` Dustin Sallings
2004-04-08 13:57 ` John Goerzen
2004-04-13 11:15 ` Keith Wansbrough
2004-04-08 13:48 ` John Goerzen
2004-04-08 14:06 ` Richard Jones
2004-04-08 14:53 ` John Goerzen
2004-04-08 19:56 ` [Caml-list] Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar Christophe TROESTLER
2004-04-08 20:47 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Evan Martin
2004-04-08 21:20 ` Kenneth Knowles
2004-04-07 23:03 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-04-08 7:03 ` james woodyatt
2004-04-08 7:15 ` Stijn De Saeger
2004-04-08 8:25 ` skaller
2004-04-08 9:35 ` Andreas Rossberg
2004-04-08 11:05 ` Florian Hars
2004-04-08 11:31 ` Andreas Rossberg
2004-04-08 13:39 ` Jacques Garrigue
2004-04-08 12:33 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-19 12:17 ` Alex Baretta
2004-03-19 12:37 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 12:44 ` Issac Trotts
2004-03-18 23:31 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-19 1:08 ` Michael Vanier
2004-03-19 8:51 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 13:20 ` John Carr
2004-03-19 15:12 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-21 21:11 ` John Carr
2004-03-22 6:46 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 8:48 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-18 18:57 ` Shawn Wagner
2004-03-18 21:16 ` Kenneth Knowles
2004-03-18 22:32 ` Fernando Alegre
2004-03-19 0:03 ` [Caml-list] Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar Remi Vanicat
2004-03-19 8:50 ` [Caml-list] Demande clarification nomenclature ocaml* Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons
2004-03-19 9:49 ` [Caml-list] Suggestion (was: Demande clarification nomenclature ocaml*) Wolfgang Müller
2004-03-19 10:19 ` [Caml-list] Modules and namespaces Richard Jones
2004-03-19 10:42 ` Wolfgang Müller
2004-03-19 10:45 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 13:56 ` Fernando Alegre
2004-03-19 15:15 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 11:45 ` [Caml-list] Demande clarification nomenclature ocaml* Benjamin Geer
2004-03-20 6:12 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Matt Gushee
2004-03-20 11:29 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-20 6:23 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-20 6:23 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-09 17:59 ` [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library james woodyatt
2004-03-19 10:19 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-20 6:15 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-20 6:40 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-20 6:45 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-09 18:04 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
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