From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id SAA17577; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:28:50 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA18015 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:28:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mz2.forethought.net (mzpi4.forethought.net [216.241.36.13]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3EGShYM024228 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:28:46 +0200 Received: from [216.241.35.41] (helo=swordfish) by mz2.forethought.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BDnFi-0002Zn-1x for caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:28:42 -0600 Received: from matt by swordfish with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BDnFi-0007om-00 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:28:42 -0600 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:28:41 -0600 From: Matt Gushee To: caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] suggestion: do not link to www.ocaml.org Message-ID: <20040414162841.GA29676@swordfish> Reply-To: Matt Gushee Mail-Followup-To: caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr References: <20040414011219.GB919@complete.org> <20040414151414.GB16580@excelhustler.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040414151414.GB16580@excelhustler.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-Miltered: at concorde by Joe's j-chkmail ("http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr")! X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Spam: no; 0.00; gushee:01 mgushee:01 havenrock:01 caml-list:01 2004:99 expressing:01 wisely:99 nonetheless:01 gushee:01 englewood:01 manure:01 mgushee:01 havenrock:01 ignores:01 --lao:01 Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 336 On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 10:14:14AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > > > > To you. And I submit, you are a techie who thinks the word 'hacker' has > > positive connotations. Suits don't see it that way. Not that I'm a > > Sure, but -- who gives a damn? The site is clearly aimed at programmers > who will understand. Your argument sounds like saying Slashdot is > poorly marketed to suits because its slogan mentions "nerds". That's > true, but irrelevant; Slashdot isn't *trying* to attract suits. You're comparing pears and pineapples. Although I suppose Slashdot could be construed as representing "geek opinion," it is very clearly a site *for* expressing opinions, and has no strong connection with any particular technology or technical sub-community. Whereas ocaml.org appears to (note "appears to," not "does") the public face of OCaml, a technology that most of us would like to see more widely adopted. Think of it this way: suppose you were a manager, and you overheard a small group of your employees making derogatory comments about you or your company. They weren't talking *to* you, but so what? You heard them, and their remarks will naturally affect your judgment of them. Similarly, people will form opinions of the OCaml community based on what they see at ocaml.org, whether or not they are the intended audience. It's really unfortunate that the perfectly good word "hacker" has, mainly due to journalistic ignorance, taken on negative connotations, but it definitely has. People should be free to speak out on matters of principle, but I don't see that there's any very important principle at stake in using that word. And OCamlers are, after all, a very small group. We need to pick our battles wisely. > Are you sure? Every place I've been -- large and small -- the > decision-makers certainly sought the input of techies and, if the suits > were making choices on language selection at all, were certainly not > doing it by viewing a single web site. Okay, you've got a point there. But a single Web site can nonetheless influence their opinions. -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners