* [Caml-list] Unix.chmod => what codes for what mode?! @ 2004-04-23 17:16 Oliver Bandel 2004-04-23 17:45 ` Shawn Wagner 2004-04-23 18:01 ` Richard Jones 0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Oliver Bandel @ 2004-04-23 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list Hello, The Unix.chmod function is bad documented. Seems that I have to try out all possible values and check the results with the command line tools? Or is there any possibility to predict it's behaviour?! Ciao, Oliver ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Unix.chmod => what codes for what mode?! 2004-04-23 17:16 [Caml-list] Unix.chmod => what codes for what mode?! Oliver Bandel @ 2004-04-23 17:45 ` Shawn Wagner 2004-04-23 18:01 ` Richard Jones 1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Shawn Wagner @ 2004-04-23 17:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 07:16:34PM +0200, Oliver Bandel wrote: > Hello, > > The Unix.chmod function is bad documented. > > Seems that I have to try out all possible values > and check the results with the command line tools? > > > Or is there any possibility to predict it's behaviour?! It uses the same numeric modes as the chmod command-line program. See man 1 chmod for details. -- Shawn Wagner shawnw@speakeasy.org ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Unix.chmod => what codes for what mode?! 2004-04-23 17:16 [Caml-list] Unix.chmod => what codes for what mode?! Oliver Bandel 2004-04-23 17:45 ` Shawn Wagner @ 2004-04-23 18:01 ` Richard Jones 2004-04-23 19:14 ` Matt Gushee 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Richard Jones @ 2004-04-23 18:01 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: caml-list On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 07:16:34PM +0200, Oliver Bandel wrote: > Hello, > > The Unix.chmod function is bad documented. > > Seems that I have to try out all possible values > and check the results with the command line tools? > > > Or is there any possibility to predict it's behaviour?! Almost certainly you're not using octal numbers right. The format for octal numbers in OCaml is different from C, for example: Unix.chmod filename 0o755 would have the same effect as: % chmod 755 filename Rich. -- Richard Jones. http://www.annexia.org/ http://www.j-london.com/ Merjis Ltd. http://www.merjis.com/ - improving website return on investment MOD_CAML lets you run type-safe Objective CAML programs inside the Apache webserver. http://www.merjis.com/developers/mod_caml/ ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Unix.chmod => what codes for what mode?! 2004-04-23 18:01 ` Richard Jones @ 2004-04-23 19:14 ` Matt Gushee 2004-04-23 19:34 ` Oliver Bandel 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Matt Gushee @ 2004-04-23 19:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 07:01:02PM +0100, Richard Jones wrote: > On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 07:16:34PM +0200, Oliver Bandel wrote: > > > > The Unix.chmod function is bad documented. I agree. See below. > Almost certainly you're not using octal numbers right. The format > for octal numbers in OCaml is different from C, for example: My guess would be that he simply wasn't conscious of the fact that they *were* octal numbers--which is the same mistake I made at first and have seen several others make. The fact that permissions are octal is easy to understand, but--if you have worked with file permissions in the Unix shell and never either worked with them in a medium level language like C or thought deeply about what the numbers represent, it's not at all obvious. After all, in the following: > % chmod 755 filename 755 just looks like an integer, doesn't it? Hence the documentation issue. I also suggested, when I ran into this problem, that the fact these are octal numbers should be documented. I was told that it is documented, in ... I forget where, but someplace rather distant from the Unix API doc. I submit that that is inadequate documentation for many people. Of course, it's often very difficult to tell how thoroughly and explicitly to document a language. And the very best programmers, and those most familiar with the system, often produce documentation that is both thorough and correct, but at the same time horribly obscure for mere mortals. Actually, I think the OCaml team does pretty well, considering the inherent difficulty of the language and the small amount of time they can devote to documentation. Still, it could be better. It often seems that, when people raise concerns like this about the OCaml documentation, they get responses that, while well-intentioned and courteous, imply that it is their fault for not having read the right document or for lacking the necessary background (BTW, I'm not pointing at anyone in this particular discussion), and that's a shame. I'm reminded of the old parables of Jesus (or the Buddha) knocking on people's doors disguised as a beggar: the "dummy" you alienate with an unhelpful answer might turn out to have been a high school student who could have become a brilliant OCaml programmer, or perhaps a senior system architect who no longer programs very much--but might be in a position to influence the CTO of a large corporation. Not that we should try to make OCaml understandable to the entire world--that would be absurd. But when a small effort would make it easier for a significant number of people, why not? E.g.: Note that [permissions] is an octal number. Example: Unix.chmod 0o755 myfile There. That took about 30 seconds. -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Unix.chmod => what codes for what mode?! 2004-04-23 19:14 ` Matt Gushee @ 2004-04-23 19:34 ` Oliver Bandel 2004-04-23 20:29 ` Matt Gushee 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Oliver Bandel @ 2004-04-23 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list Hi, On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 01:14:49PM -0600, Matt Gushee wrote: > On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 07:01:02PM +0100, Richard Jones wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 07:16:34PM +0200, Oliver Bandel wrote: > > > > > > The Unix.chmod function is bad documented. > > I agree. See below. > > > Almost certainly you're not using octal numbers right. The format > > for octal numbers in OCaml is different from C, for example: > > My guess would be that he simply wasn't conscious of the fact that they > *were* octal numbers--which is the same mistake I made at first and have > seen several others make. The fact that permissions are octal is easy to > understand, but--if you have worked with file permissions in the Unix > shell and never either worked with them in a medium level language like > C or thought deeply about what the numbers represent, it's not at all > obvious. After all, in the following: > > > % chmod 755 filename > > 755 just looks like an integer, doesn't it? > > Hence the documentation issue. I also suggested, when I ran into this > problem, that the fact these are octal numbers should be documented. I > was told that it is documented, in ... I forget where, but someplace > rather distant from the Unix API doc. I submit that that is inadequate > documentation for many people. Well, when doing chmod on the shel, I have in mind this is octal numbers or the ascii ugo+/-wr. But when looking in the Ocaml-Unix-Lib-documentation I only saw the type "int", and when nothing else is mentioned, int for me is decimal int. Should be mentioned in the manual! Information does not make sense when it is not evaluated in the right context (environment). [...] > > Note that [permissions] is an octal number. Example: > > Unix.chmod 0o755 myfile > > There. That took about 30 seconds. Yes. Until today I didn't use Ocaml's octal numbers, because I didn't needed them. But to mention this seemingly obvious thing in the reference manual would be nice. very nice! Ciao, Oliver ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Unix.chmod => what codes for what mode?! 2004-04-23 19:34 ` Oliver Bandel @ 2004-04-23 20:29 ` Matt Gushee 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Matt Gushee @ 2004-04-23 20:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 09:34:01PM +0200, Oliver Bandel wrote: > > Note that [permissions] is an octal number. Example: > > > > Unix.chmod 0o755 myfile Of course, octal is just a notation for integers, so the above isn't quite right. Other than that, I stand by what I said. -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USA Horses bear manure through mgushee@havenrock.com its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-04-23 20:29 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-04-23 17:16 [Caml-list] Unix.chmod => what codes for what mode?! Oliver Bandel 2004-04-23 17:45 ` Shawn Wagner 2004-04-23 18:01 ` Richard Jones 2004-04-23 19:14 ` Matt Gushee 2004-04-23 19:34 ` Oliver Bandel 2004-04-23 20:29 ` Matt Gushee
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