[Caml-list] MLGame library

[Caml-list] MLGame library

[Lukasz Lew]

Hello,

I'm please to announce MLGame library 0.112, available here:
http://mlgame.sourceforge.net/

MLGame is a library designed to help developers create 2d games by 
providing a high level interface for graphics, network, etc.

Features

    * Sprites with collision (per pixel or per rect)
    * Contexts (parts of screen may display parts of world)
    * Network (high level protocol with callbacks)
    * Console and Menu (based on a parser with variables, aliases, ...)
    * Binding keys to game actions 

---

Some time ago we stopped developing it.
Now it seems that some more work is needed.
If You are ready to continue our work, contact us.

Regards,
Cezary Kaliszyk       cek@students.mimuw.edu.pl
Lukasz Lew          l.lew@students.mimuw.edu.pl
Dominik sidorek d.sidorek@students.mimuw.edu.pl

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RE: [Caml-list] MLGame library

[Brandon J. Van Every]

Lukasz Lew wrote:
>
> I'm please to announce MLGame library 0.112, available here:
> http://mlgame.sourceforge.net/
>
> MLGame is a library designed to help developers create 2d games by
> providing a high level interface for graphics, network, etc.

This looks interesting.  I am disappointed, however, that you are
releasing it under the GPL.  This makes it unacceptable for commercial
use.  Have you considered the LGPL, or do you strongly object to that?


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.

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Re: [Caml-list] MLGame library

[Sylvain LE GALL]

Hello,

On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 01:16:20PM -0700, Brandon J. Van Every wrote:
> Lukasz Lew wrote:
> >
> > I'm please to announce MLGame library 0.112, available here:
> > http://mlgame.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > MLGame is a library designed to help developers create 2d games by
> > providing a high level interface for graphics, network, etc.
> 
> This looks interesting.  I am disappointed, however, that you are
> releasing it under the GPL.  This makes it unacceptable for commercial
> use.  Have you considered the LGPL, or do you strongly object to that?
> 

GPL/LGPL is the same problem, if you don't include in LGPL an ocaml
exception ( see the LGPL licence of ocaml itself ).

Regard
Sylvain Le Gall

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RE: [Caml-list] MLGame library

[Brandon J. Van Every]

Sylvain LE GALL
> Brandon J. Van Every wrote:
> >
> > This looks interesting.  I am disappointed, however, that you are
> > releasing it under the GPL.  This makes it unacceptable for
> > commercial
> > use.  Have you considered the LGPL, or do you strongly
> > object to that?
>
> GPL/LGPL is the same problem, if you don't include in LGPL an ocaml
> exception ( see the LGPL licence of ocaml itself ).

I don't understand what you're saying, so maybe you can clarify.

Here is my understanding of the LGPL.  Since ancient times, one has been
perfectly free to do whatever one likes *on top of* a LGPL library, i.e.
linking to it.  There is no 'exception' required, that's why it's the
LGPL not the GPL.  The only stipulation is you must redistribute the
source code *of the LGPL library* along with your proprietary stuff on
top of it.  Your proprietary stuff can be completely and utterly closed.

Now, how does OCaml create any complication with a LGPL licensed
library?  Surely OCamlSDL doesn't patch OCaml itself?  Nor MLGame?  And,
I would note that SDL and OCamlSDL are LGPL licensed.  So where is a
'licensing issue' coming from, except by choice of MLGame's authors?


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.




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Re: [Caml-list] MLGame library

[Karl Zilles]

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:
> Here is my understanding of the LGPL.  Since ancient times, one has been
> perfectly free to do whatever one likes *on top of* a LGPL library, i.e.
> linking to it.  There is no 'exception' required, that's why it's the
> LGPL not the GPL.  The only stipulation is you must redistribute the
> source code *of the LGPL library* along with your proprietary stuff on
> top of it.  Your proprietary stuff can be completely and utterly closed.

Well, they changed the LGPL a while back to make it a little more 
complicated.  Not only do you have to distribute the source of the 
library you changed, but you also have to distribute *your object code* 
in a way that someone can then modify the LGPL library and relink it 
with the code you have written, creating a new executable.  I'm 
paraphrasing, but I think that's what it boils down to roughly.

It's not the worst thing imaginable, but it dulls any interest many 
commercial developers might have in using an LGPL'd library.  The 
'exception' that he's talking about removes this additional requirement, 
making it as you originally describe.

Xavier will undoubtable be pleased to see another licensing discussion 
on the list.  The way these things usually work out, someone will soon 
suggest that a 'BSD' license is really the way to go, then we'll see 
about 30 rabid posts arguing the situation from both sides, repeating 
the same arguments that they did 3 months ago when it last broke out.

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RE: [Caml-list] MLGame library

[Brandon J. Van Every]

Karl Zilles wrote:
>
> Well, they changed the LGPL a while back to make it a little more
> complicated.  Not only do you have to distribute the source of the
> library you changed, but you also have to distribute *your
> object code*
> in a way that someone can then modify the LGPL library and relink it
> with the code you have written, creating a new executable.  I'm
> paraphrasing, but I think that's what it boils down to roughly.
>
> It's not the worst thing imaginable, but it dulls any interest many
> commercial developers might have in using an LGPL'd library.  The
> 'exception' that he's talking about removes this additional
> requirement, making it as you originally describe.

I was unaware of this.  I'll have to study up on that.

> Xavier will undoubtable be pleased to see another licensing
> discussion
> on the list.  The way these things usually work out, someone
> will soon
> suggest that a 'BSD' license is really the way to go, then we'll see
> about 30 rabid posts arguing the situation from both sides, repeating
> the same arguments that they did 3 months ago when it last broke out.

Looking back, I see I was a part of those threads.  Frankly, I could
care less how people want to license their own software.  I'm only
interested in whether the MLGame people have considered the LGPL, a
license that's potentially useful to me.  I find that a lot of people
who release their first cut of something as GPL, simply haven't thought
through the commercial implications.  They can often be persuaded to
change to LGPL on the grounds of greater utility to a larger audience.
But if they have thought it through and aren't interested, so be it.  No
big deal.  Not everybody's interested in commercial stuff.

What gets me riled up is the zealousy of a lot of people in the GPL
camp.  Charges of MIT / BSD "evil profiteers," "you're just here to rip
us off," "all software should be free," "the contractual service model
is the only valid business model," etc.  I don't respect that kind of
thinking, any more than I respect people who think property rights
shouldn't exist.  Far too many MIT / BSD style projects have proven that
open source under that model works just fine, is enlightened, provides
people with real benefit, is not inequitable, etc.  It all depends on
whether you're into idealistic theory, or what works out in pratice.  My
own idealism is tempered by pragmatism.  I don't like extreme idealists
who are not so tempered.


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.

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[Caml-list] [OT] Yet Another Licence War

[Alan Schmitt]

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* Brandon J. Van Every (vanevery@indiegamedesign.com) wrote:
> My own idealism is tempered by pragmatism.

Under what license have you released your contributions, then? I have 
seen you on the xconq, freeciv, and ocaml mailing lists, but I still do 
not know what contributions you made and under which licence.

Happy Ocaml hacking,

Alan Schmitt

-- 
The hacker: someone who figured things out and made something cool happen.
.O.
..O
OOO

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Re: [Caml-list] MLGame library

[Blue Prawn]

Hello,

Does a 3D physics engine exist yet usable from OCaml which one can use to take 
advantage of lablglut ?

Cheers

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