* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
@ 2005-03-31 10:35 Martin Sandin
2005-03-31 12:14 ` Maxence Guesdon
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Martin Sandin @ 2005-03-31 10:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: caml-list
I seem to have found that the page actually works fine
for me if I just access caml.inria.fr/index.en.html
instead of www.ocaml.org or caml.inria.fr. The
document I get from those two addresses looks like:
"""
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!DOCTYPE page PUBLIC
"-//CamlWebSite//DTD CamlWebSite pre-xhtml//EN"
"http://caml.inria.fr/dtd/pre-xhtml.dtd">
<?xml-stylesheet
href="http://caml.inria.fr/xslt/html.xsl"
type="text/xsl"?>
<page name="home"
fr="yes" title-fr="Le langage Caml: Accueil"
en="yes" title-en="The Caml language: Home"
>
<options
show-title="no"
floats="no"
/>
<navigation>
more stuff here...
"""
It doesn't have a <html> tag at all and isn't
recognised by the copies of IE I'm using. I could
hazard a guess that the mentioned xslt document
probably should be applied, and that IE wasn't so hot
with doing client-side xslt-transformations when I
last read an article. But of these matters I
admittedly have limited knowledge.
Martin
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
2005-03-31 10:35 [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page Martin Sandin
@ 2005-03-31 12:14 ` Maxence Guesdon
2005-03-31 18:58 ` Eijiro Sumii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Maxence Guesdon @ 2005-03-31 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: caml-list
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:35:33 -0800 (PST)
Martin Sandin <om_sandin@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I seem to have found that the page actually works fine
> for me if I just access caml.inria.fr/index.en.html
> instead of www.ocaml.org or caml.inria.fr. The
> document I get from those two addresses looks like:
> """
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
>
> <!DOCTYPE page PUBLIC
> "-//CamlWebSite//DTD CamlWebSite pre-xhtml//EN"
> "http://caml.inria.fr/dtd/pre-xhtml.dtd">
>
> <?xml-stylesheet
> href="http://caml.inria.fr/xslt/html.xsl"
> type="text/xsl"?>
>
> <page name="home"
> fr="yes" title-fr="Le langage Caml: Accueil"
> en="yes" title-en="The Caml language: Home"
> >
>
> <options
> show-title="no"
> floats="no"
> />
>
> <navigation>
>
> more stuff here...
> """
> It doesn't have a <html> tag at all and isn't
> recognised by the copies of IE I'm using. I could
> hazard a guess that the mentioned xslt document
> probably should be applied, and that IE wasn't so hot
> with doing client-side xslt-transformations when I
> last read an article. But of these matters I
> admittedly have limited knowledge.
Hello,
a "ForceLanguagePriority Prefer Fallback" later, it seems that the english files
are now served even if the client's prefered languages are not "fr" nor "en".
Thanks to all for helping us on that problem.
Regards,
--
Maxence Guesdon
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
2005-03-31 12:14 ` Maxence Guesdon
@ 2005-03-31 18:58 ` Eijiro Sumii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eijiro Sumii @ 2005-03-31 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: caml-list; +Cc: maxence.guesdon, sumii
Yes, it now works! Thanks - and thanks again for the great web site.
Eijiro
From: "Maxence Guesdon" <maxence.guesdon@inria.fr>
> a "ForceLanguagePriority Prefer Fallback" later, it seems that the english files
> are now served even if the client's prefered languages are not "fr" nor "en".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
@ 2005-03-31 19:28 Martin Sandin
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Martin Sandin @ 2005-03-31 19:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: caml-list
Everything now seems to work just fine. Congrats to a
much better web presence than previously! The
integration of the Humps is, among everything else, a
nice improvement. If future plans allow it I'd be
interested in having one of those nice little boxes on
the right with the latest Humps material as well as
the latest news. Makes the language seem more vibrant
when the first page has new stuff at tighter
intervals:)
And the concerns I expressed in my first post in this
thread turned out to be mostly unfounded and have now
all been put to rest. Thanks for straight answers, and
as always, fantastic work.
Martin
__________________________________
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Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
@ 2005-03-30 14:19 Martin Sandin
2005-03-30 15:01 ` [Caml-list] " Yaron Minsky
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Martin Sandin @ 2005-03-30 14:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: caml-list
Erik de Castro Lopo skrev:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:43:17 +1000
> Erik de Castro Lopo <ocaml-erikd@mega-nerd.com>
<snip>
> which means that the server is OK and that the
problem must be in my
> browser.
Might be, might be. But it's a problem you share with
each of the 3 Internet Explorer copies (ie 3 windows
machines) I've tried to use to access the site. If the
problem is specific to me, please tell me and ignore
what I've written below.
The site works fine in Opera and Mozilla, and is a lot
nicer than the old, but it doesn't work in IE. The
fact that Windows isn't the no 1 priority of the OCaml
team, or the community, is both obvious (witness the
lack of 3.08.3 binaries for Windows) and
understandable. But I am still surprised that it was
even considered acceptable to release a site which
entierly excludes the 80+% majority browser (figure is
likely to be lower in the dev community, but no way
less than 50%). I always thought OCaml at least wanted
to grow, I sure do want it to, a popular language
brings many desirable advantages, and that a new site
would help in this regard (image is important, after
all). But while the new site looks (and more
importantly, works) better it can only be viewed by
those who already know to look for substance over
flash (gross generalization) and often prefer sparse
sites. The young and impressionable ones will miss it
entierly and the more market oriented ones will not be
interested in something which looks practically dead
(or completly oblivious to marketing, which is much
the same). In what way this situation is to be
considered an improvement in general, and for whom, I
don't know.
I know you are all overworked and not web design
people. I know promotion and popularity are fairly low
priority items, which is part of the reason you've
been able to bring us this extremly versatile
language. But the now practical lack of a real web
presence for OCaml denies the language, you, and us
all, to even have a shot. I really prefer not to
whine, and this post came out a whole lot more
negative than I wished, but I want to use OCaml a lot
more in the future. Thanks.
Martin
__________________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
2005-03-30 14:19 Martin Sandin
@ 2005-03-30 15:01 ` Yaron Minsky
2005-03-30 15:11 ` Christopher Campbell
2005-03-30 15:29 ` Xavier Leroy
2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Yaron Minsky @ 2005-03-30 15:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Martin Sandin; +Cc: caml-list
For what it's worth, I just tried the site with ie 6.0.2800.1106, and
it works fine as far as I can tell.
Yaron
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 06:19:49 -0800 (PST), Martin Sandin
<om_sandin@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Erik de Castro Lopo skrev:
> > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:43:17 +1000
> > Erik de Castro Lopo <ocaml-erikd@mega-nerd.com>
>
> <snip>
>
> > which means that the server is OK and that the
> problem must be in my
> > browser.
>
> Might be, might be. But it's a problem you share with
> each of the 3 Internet Explorer copies (ie 3 windows
> machines) I've tried to use to access the site. If the
> problem is specific to me, please tell me and ignore
> what I've written below.
>
> The site works fine in Opera and Mozilla, and is a lot
> nicer than the old, but it doesn't work in IE. The
> fact that Windows isn't the no 1 priority of the OCaml
> team, or the community, is both obvious (witness the
> lack of 3.08.3 binaries for Windows) and
> understandable. But I am still surprised that it was
> even considered acceptable to release a site which
> entierly excludes the 80+% majority browser (figure is
> likely to be lower in the dev community, but no way
> less than 50%). I always thought OCaml at least wanted
> to grow, I sure do want it to, a popular language
> brings many desirable advantages, and that a new site
> would help in this regard (image is important, after
> all). But while the new site looks (and more
> importantly, works) better it can only be viewed by
> those who already know to look for substance over
> flash (gross generalization) and often prefer sparse
> sites. The young and impressionable ones will miss it
> entierly and the more market oriented ones will not be
> interested in something which looks practically dead
> (or completly oblivious to marketing, which is much
> the same). In what way this situation is to be
> considered an improvement in general, and for whom, I
> don't know.
>
> I know you are all overworked and not web design
> people. I know promotion and popularity are fairly low
> priority items, which is part of the reason you've
> been able to bring us this extremly versatile
> language. But the now practical lack of a real web
> presence for OCaml denies the language, you, and us
> all, to even have a shot. I really prefer not to
> whine, and this post came out a whole lot more
> negative than I wished, but I want to use OCaml a lot
> more in the future. Thanks.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management:
> http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list
> Archives: http://caml.inria.fr
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
2005-03-30 14:19 Martin Sandin
2005-03-30 15:01 ` [Caml-list] " Yaron Minsky
@ 2005-03-30 15:11 ` Christopher Campbell
2005-03-30 15:29 ` Xavier Leroy
2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Campbell @ 2005-03-30 15:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Martin Sandin; +Cc: caml-list
Martin Sandin wrote:
> Erik de Castro Lopo skrev:
>
>>On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:43:17 +1000
>>Erik de Castro Lopo <ocaml-erikd@mega-nerd.com>
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>which means that the server is OK and that the
>
> problem must be in my
>
>>browser.
>
>
> Might be, might be. But it's a problem you share with
> each of the 3 Internet Explorer copies (ie 3 windows
> machines) I've tried to use to access the site. If the
> problem is specific to me, please tell me and ignore
> what I've written below.
>
> The site works fine in Opera and Mozilla, and is a lot
> nicer than the old, but it doesn't work in IE. The
> fact that Windows isn't the no 1 priority of the OCaml
> team, or the community, is both obvious (witness the
> lack of 3.08.3 binaries for Windows) and
> understandable.
I found this...
http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/www/content-type.html
It suggests IE may interpret the xhtml document sent as "text/html" as
XML not HTML if it doesn't encounter <html> close to the top of the
page. It ignores the mime type. :(
What versions of IE are you running?
Regards,
Chris
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
2005-03-30 14:19 Martin Sandin
2005-03-30 15:01 ` [Caml-list] " Yaron Minsky
2005-03-30 15:11 ` Christopher Campbell
@ 2005-03-30 15:29 ` Xavier Leroy
2005-03-30 19:24 ` Dimitri Timofeev
2005-03-30 20:30 ` Eijiro Sumii
2 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Xavier Leroy @ 2005-03-30 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Martin Sandin; +Cc: caml-list
> The site works fine in Opera and Mozilla, and is a lot
> nicer than the old, but it doesn't work in IE. The
> fact that Windows isn't the no 1 priority of the OCaml
> team, or the community, is both obvious (witness the
> lack of 3.08.3 binaries for Windows) and
> understandable. But I am still surprised that it was
> even considered acceptable to release a site which
> entierly excludes the 80+% majority browser (figure is
> likely to be lower in the dev community, but no way
> less than 50%).
Of course the new site was tested with IE, and it works just fine on
my Windows installation. Something is happening that 1- we don't
understand, and 2- we can't reproduce. Another user suggested this
might have to do with language preferences in the browser, which could
expose a problem in content (language) negociation between the browser
and server. Any constructive advice on how to attack this problem is
most welcome.
Concerning 3.08.3 binaries for Windows, please keep the following in
mind. We have volunteers who do a great job of packaging binaries for
various flavors of Linux. Other Unix users just compile from sources
and don't complain. Doligez does the MacOS X binaries, but that's
because he uses MacOS X for all his computing. It's only for Windows
that I haven't found anyone to prepare the binary packages in my
place. So, yes, you'll have to wait till I don't have anything more
urgent to do, and that will probably take several weeks. If you're
unhappy about that, why don't you build a binary distribution
yourself? I'll be extremely grateful.
- Xavier Leroy
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
2005-03-30 15:29 ` Xavier Leroy
@ 2005-03-30 19:24 ` Dimitri Timofeev
2005-03-30 23:48 ` Marc Herbert
2005-03-30 20:30 ` Eijiro Sumii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dimitri Timofeev @ 2005-03-30 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Xavier Leroy; +Cc: caml-list
Hello!
Xavier Leroy wrote:
>Of course the new site was tested with IE, and it works just fine on
>my Windows installation. Something is happening that 1- we don't
>understand, and 2- we can't reproduce. Another user suggested this
>might have to do with language preferences in the browser, which could
>expose a problem in content (language) negociation between the browser
>and server. Any constructive advice on how to attack this problem is
>most welcome.
>
>
It seems that this problem may be related with Accept-Language HTTP
header what is set
by browser according to the user language preferences. I'm using Firefox
1.0.2 (Windows XP),
and when I add English or French to the list of preferred languages,
OCaml site works very
well. But if I don't specify none of these, I get 'unknown/unknown'
content type.
It seems that caml.inria.fr web server can't handle the situation where
none of supported
languages (English, French) is specified in Accept-Language header.
Maybe the best solution
would be to change web server configuration and to make it behave just
like Accept-Language="en"
when Accept-Language is not specified or does not contain 'en' nor 'fr'.
As a workaround, it is easy to us users to set up our browsers to
request content in
English or French in addition to our favorite languages :). This
workaround works not
only for Mozilla Firefox, but for MS IE too (at least version 6.0).
Thank you for the excellent work you do!
OCaml is a very good and useful language, and new OCaml site looks
really nice!
--
Dimitri
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
2005-03-30 19:24 ` Dimitri Timofeev
@ 2005-03-30 23:48 ` Marc Herbert
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Marc Herbert @ 2005-03-30 23:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: caml-list
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dimitri Timofeev wrote:
> Xavier Leroy wrote:
>
> >Of course the new site was tested with IE, and it works just fine on
> >my Windows installation. Something is happening that 1- we don't
> >understand, and 2- we can't reproduce. Another user suggested this
> >might have to do with language preferences in the browser, which could
> >expose a problem in content (language) negociation between the browser
> >and server. Any constructive advice on how to attack this problem is
> >most welcome.
> It seems that this problem may be related with Accept-Language HTTP
> header what is set by browser according to the user language
> preferences. I'm using Firefox 1.0.2 (Windows XP), and when I add
> English or French to the list of preferred languages, OCaml site
> works very well. But if I don't specify none of these, I get
> 'unknown/unknown' content type.
I just made a few tests and network captures and I confirm this
accurate diagnostic with Firefox 1.0.3 on linux Debian woody as well
as with Opera 7.54 on linux Fedora Core 2.
Congratulations to Dimitri and others for finding out the issue so
quickly. Great work.
> As a workaround, it is easy to us users to set up our browsers to
> request content in English or French in addition to our favorite
> languages :). This workaround works not only for Mozilla Firefox,
> but for MS IE too (at least version 6.0).
Another workaround was fine for me: set up your browser with NO
favorite language at all (and so no Accept-Language: header is sent at
all).
> Thank you for the excellent work you do!
> OCaml is a very good and useful language, and new OCaml site looks
> really nice!
Agreed.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page
2005-03-30 15:29 ` Xavier Leroy
2005-03-30 19:24 ` Dimitri Timofeev
@ 2005-03-30 20:30 ` Eijiro Sumii
1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eijiro Sumii @ 2005-03-30 20:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: caml-list; +Cc: Xavier.Leroy, sumii
From: "Xavier Leroy" <Xavier.Leroy@inria.fr>
> Of course the new site was tested with IE, and it works just fine on
> my Windows installation. Something is happening that 1- we don't
> understand, and 2- we can't reproduce. Another user suggested this
> might have to do with language preferences in the browser, which could
> expose a problem in content (language) negociation between the browser
> and server. Any constructive advice on how to attack this problem is
> most welcome.
Perhaps I am that user:-) but anyway, I reported the same problem with
MS IE on Japanese Windows to webmaster@brion.inria.fr on March 18 with
the log below.
Although I'm not an expert, the problem apparently seems to be in the
configuration of your apache (or each .htaccess), to which I
unfortunately don't have access...
In any case, the "Language Negotiation Exceptions" section in the
following document might help.
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/en/content-negotiation.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> telnet caml.inria.fr http
Trying 128.93.11.23...
Connected to brion.inria.fr.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.1
HOST: caml.inria.fr
Accept-Language: ja
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:21:26 GMT
Server: Apache/2.0.52 (Debian GNU/Linux) mod_ssl/2.0.52 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
Content-Location: index.xml
Vary: negotiate,accept,accept-language
TCN: choice
Last-Modified: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:36:27 GMT
ETag: "11006c-1b03-7714ccc0"
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 6915
Content-Type: unknown/unknown
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
...snip...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
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2005-03-31 10:35 [Caml-list] Re: Still problems with the main ocaml web page Martin Sandin
2005-03-31 12:14 ` Maxence Guesdon
2005-03-31 18:58 ` Eijiro Sumii
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2005-03-31 19:28 Martin Sandin
2005-03-30 14:19 Martin Sandin
2005-03-30 15:01 ` [Caml-list] " Yaron Minsky
2005-03-30 15:11 ` Christopher Campbell
2005-03-30 15:29 ` Xavier Leroy
2005-03-30 19:24 ` Dimitri Timofeev
2005-03-30 23:48 ` Marc Herbert
2005-03-30 20:30 ` Eijiro Sumii
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