From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7908BBB7 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:39:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pauillac.inria.fr (pauillac.inria.fr [128.93.11.35]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6SEdwjE023142 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:39:58 +0200 Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA28781 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:39:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from einhorn.in-berlin.de (einhorn.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.8]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6SEdvwl023125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:39:57 +0200 X-Envelope-From: oliver@first.in-berlin.de X-Envelope-To: Received: from first.in-berlin.de (e178010022.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.178.10.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by einhorn.in-berlin.de (8.13.6/8.13.6/Debian-1) with ESMTP id k6SEdqe9030358 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:39:52 +0200 Received: by first.in-berlin.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id F188E2EF5F5; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:40:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:40:09 +0200 From: Oliver Bandel To: caml-list@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] To Dissect a Mockingbird Message-ID: <20060728144009.GB4250@first.in-berlin.de> References: <20060728111520.GS701@first.in-berlin.de> <9C312333-30AB-4683-A3A9-8D54FEB438B8@iais.fraunhofer.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <9C312333-30AB-4683-A3A9-8D54FEB438B8@iais.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang_at_IN-Berlin_e.V. on 192.109.42.8 X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 44CA21BE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 44CA21BD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.01; bandel:01 in-berlin:01 foerster:01 tokens:01 bandel:01 foerster:01 28,:98 2006:98 anatomy:98 denver:98 breach:98 symbole:98 delusion:98 wrote:01 caml-list:01 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 Hello, On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 04:15:54PM +0200, Dr. Axel Poign wrote: > I am the happy owner of a copy of Spencer-Browns book which I got > interested in in the early 70's. I actually found the book in > Blackwell's in Oxford, where it was in the section "Religions" (nomen > est omen?). Further I own a manuscript on "The Arithmetic of > closure" by Francisco Varela Can you send me a copy of this paper? (scanned or as paper-copies)?! (Or at least mention, where to find it (ISBN)?!) > (then at the Department of Anatomy at > the University of Colorado, Denver) who related Spencer-Brown to > Scott's work, and finally as a more accessible reference: > > A Calculus for Self-Reference > Francisco Varela > Int. Journal General Systems, 1975, Vol.2, p.8-34 > Gordon and Breach Scientific Publishers Ltd. > Great Britain This one I have somewhere in my paper copies; I found this article in a library. But to understand it, I first have to jump into LoF-details. Some poeple said they had to re-read this book many times, until they really understand it. I hope to be faster here ;-) > > The stuff is quite interesting reading for historical reasons. Only for that reasons? LoF seems to be - even if it's mentioned that it's a mathematical book - quite good for philosophical reasoning, and makes sense in a cybernetics-context (cybernetics, radical constructivism, Heinz von Foerster, Maturana, ...). And therefore there is a linkage to Zen/Buddhism (for example look at Heinz von Foerster's text "Objects: Tokens for Eigen-Behaviors", in german: "Gegenstände: greifbare Symbole für (Eigen-)Verhalten"). Also interesting on this topic: Maturana's work. But before we will be too off-topic, I will stop here. ;-) Best, Oliver Bandel -- "Objectivity is a subject's delusion that observing can be done without him." (Heinz von Foerster)