From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_FAIL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919DABBAF for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:17:56 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAKGyikhQRFuw/2dsb2JhbACuQA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,255,1215381600"; d="scan'208";a="15525321" Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2008 14:17:56 +0200 Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m6QCHuvB004008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:17:56 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAKGyikhQRFuw/2dsb2JhbACuQA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,255,1215381600"; d="scan'208";a="15525320" Received: from furbychan.cocan.org ([80.68.91.176]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 26 Jul 2008 14:17:55 +0200 Received: from rich by furbychan.cocan.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KMiih-0008IE-Cr for caml-list@inria.fr; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:17:55 +0100 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:17:55 +0100 To: caml-list@inria.fr Subject: [off-topic] was Re: [Caml-list] New Ocaml Plug-in for NetBeans Message-ID: <20080726121755.GA30209@annexia.org> References: <1217062966.488ae8367f0d2@webmail.inescporto.pt> <20080726200312.7cfde7ef.mle+ocaml@mega-nerd.com> <200807261240.10757.jon@ffconsultancy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <200807261240.10757.jon@ffconsultancy.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: Richard Jones X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 488B15F4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail . ensmp . fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 0100,:01 ocaml:01 autoconf:01 cross-:01 tarballs:01 rpms:01 makefile:01 plug-in:98 26,:98 git:98 git:98 eaf:98 wrote:01 caml-list:01 On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 12:40:10PM +0100, Jon Harrop wrote: > Yet Make is not expressive enough so we have OMake, OCamlBuild... Make is perfectly expressive enough. When you start an OCaml project, you certainly need to know a bunch of stuff to write the autoconf/make framework, and it's not very well documented. Almost everyone starts from an existing project -- I suggest starting from here[1]. IDEs let you start a project much more easily because they write the boilerplate. Ah but here's the problem: the boilerplate is meaningful, and sooner or later you'll need to change it (eg. your project has some complex code generation or you want to script some automated tests). Now your IDE is getting in the way, your beginner has to face all that "stuff" which was hidden behind the scenes, and (in one IDE I used) you couldn't edit the boilerplate at all! Not to mention serious real world problems like collaborating with people who don't want to use the IDE, version control, cross- compiling, applying patches, making tarballs & RPMs, uploading to your website, feeding patches back upstream, integration with l10n tools, etc. Most of which are way beyond what IDEs offer. If you think the good people who develop libvirt could do it using an IDE, you really don't understand the scope of the problem: http://git.et.redhat.com/?p=3Dlibvirt.git;a=3Dtree http://git.et.redhat.com/?p=3Dlibvirt.git;a=3Dblob;f=3Dconfigure.in;h=3D8e0= 4f14131cf68de6eee6eadd05c5704ea8a5d41;hb=3DHEAD http://git.et.redhat.com/?p=3Dlibvirt.git;a=3Dblob;f=3DMakefile.am;h=3Db508= 2d6a7eaf7c746c3e52d61f6eb952df79db42;hb=3DHEAD Rich. [1] http://hg.et.redhat.com/virt/applications/virt-top--devel click 'manife= st' --=20 Richard Jones Red Hat