From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DNS_FROM_SECURITYSAGE, SPF_FAIL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E9DBBAF for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:15:26 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArsDAO6D/EhQRFuwgWdsb2JhbACTbwEBFiKvSINsgyc X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,453,1220220000"; d="scan'208";a="18970908" Received: from discorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.38]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 20 Oct 2008 22:15:26 +0200 Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by discorde.inria.fr (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m9KKFQm0025578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:15:26 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArsDAO6D/EhQRFuwgWdsb2JhbACTbwEBFiKvSINsgyc X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,453,1220220000"; d="scan'208";a="18970907" Received: from furbychan.cocan.org ([80.68.91.176]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 20 Oct 2008 22:15:25 +0200 Received: from rich by furbychan.cocan.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ks19u-0003gN-NX; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:15:22 +0100 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:15:22 +0100 To: Robert Morelli Cc: Thomas Gazagnaire , caml-list@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] What does Jane Street use/want for an IDE? What about you? Message-ID: <20081020201522.GA13893@annexia.org> References: <200810200919.41561.ober.14@osu.edu> <20081020133711.GP14123@janestcapital.com> <9722eaea0810200705x50c51160p91f740a806f7ab15@mail.gmail.com> <48FCA79E.7090607@flux.utah.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48FCA79E.7090607@flux.utah.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: Richard Jones X-Miltered: at discorde with ID 48FCE6DE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail . ensmp . fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.00; morelli:01 emacs:01 ocaml:01 emacs:01 ocaml:01 fwiw:01 c-like:01 wikipedia:01 wiki:01 20,:98 mile:98 blog:98 wrote:01 wrote:01 caml-list:01 On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 09:45:34AM -0600, Robert Morelli wrote: > What Emacs lisp does wrong is virtually a checklist of bad programming > language design. On the > other hand, these are all of the things languages like OCaml do right. It'd be interesting to hear[1] what exact features of elisp are counterproductive for large-scale collaborative programming. I've not looked very closely at elisp, but assumed the reason that emacs remains "unconfigurable" for most users is because it's Lisp, not because of the particular dialect of Lisp. Most programmers look at Lisp and run a mile, and I don't think an OCaml editor will fare much better if that is the case. FWIW microemacs[2] used a C-like language for configuration and extension, and this language was almost laughably incapable of doing the most basic things. You'd think that a language designed for an editor would, you know, be able to handle at least strings properly, but the microemacs programming language couldn't even do that. Nevertheless at the electronics laboratory where I started out, electrical engineers (totally unused/untrained as programmers) wrote huge macros and extensions in this horrible language. Rich. [1] Here or in a blog posting ... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microemacs -- Richard Jones Red Hat