The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Richard Jones]

I previously mentioned this book on the list and said that I'd been
promised a review copy from the publisher:

http://www.amazon.com/Objective-Caml-Programming-Language/dp/0981599206

I received the review copy from Abscissa Press yesterday and I have
read the first few chapters.  This book is in fact the Jason Hickey
book which has been floating around on the net for a while, updated by
Tim Rentsch who I think is Jason's colleague or student.

First impressions are that it is technically solid, well formatted and
easy to read, and filled with lots of examples and exercises.

The first few chapters spend too long, IMO, on rather impractical
examples involving constructing values and interpreting types.  (The
value restriction appears in Ch.5!)  Practical examples of real code
come too late, I guess reflecting the university background of the
authors.

Nevertheless from what I've read so far I think it's a sound book for
students and for people who don't mind a slightly theoretical
introduction to the language, and I can definitely recommend it.

If anyone has any specific questions, they can catch me on IRC #ocaml
today.

Rich.

(Needless to say it's far better than the Apress book)

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Richard Jones]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:27:55PM +0000, Richard Jones wrote:
> http://www.amazon.com/Objective-Caml-Programming-Language/dp/0981599206

BTW, in case the cover is unclear, it actually shows a space ship /
lander craft running OCaml code in the small window.  Cool :-)

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Tom Hutchinson]

> I received the review copy from Abscissa Press yesterday and I have
> read the first few chapters.  This book is in fact the Jason Hickey
> book which has been floating around on the net for a while, updated by
> Tim Rentsch who I think is Jason's colleague or student.

Thanks for letting us know!

I know a people have resorted to just printing out the pdf of the  
draft. Great to finally buy this in a normal form.

Never heard of the publisher though.

Tom

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Nathaniel Gray]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Richard Jones <rich@annexia.org> wrote:
> I previously mentioned this book on the list and said that I'd been
> promised a review copy from the publisher:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Objective-Caml-Programming-Language/dp/0981599206
>
> I received the review copy from Abscissa Press yesterday and I have
> read the first few chapters.  This book is in fact the Jason Hickey
> book which has been floating around on the net for a while, updated by
> Tim Rentsch who I think is Jason's colleague or student.

As someone who *was* Jason's student, I'd suggest that if that book is
clearly derived from Jason's book but Jason's name isn't on the cover
you should definitely be asking questions about that.  I would say
more but I don't want to put words in Jason's mouth.

Cheers,
-n8

-- 
Nathan Gray
http://www.n8gray.org/

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Richard Jones]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 09:37:05AM -0800, Nathaniel Gray wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Richard Jones <rich@annexia.org> wrote:
> > I previously mentioned this book on the list and said that I'd been
> > promised a review copy from the publisher:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/Objective-Caml-Programming-Language/dp/0981599206
> >
> > I received the review copy from Abscissa Press yesterday and I have
> > read the first few chapters.  This book is in fact the Jason Hickey
> > book which has been floating around on the net for a while, updated by
> > Tim Rentsch who I think is Jason's colleague or student.
> 
> As someone who *was* Jason's student, I'd suggest that if that book is
> clearly derived from Jason's book but Jason's name isn't on the cover
> you should definitely be asking questions about that.  I would say
> more but I don't want to put words in Jason's mouth.

I don't think there is any suggestion that it was plagiarised from
him.  In fact I think the author mentions Jason in the introduction ...

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Alexy Khrabrov]

I've 1-clicked the book from Amazon the minute I saw Rich's  
announcement.  It's a good reading for how the language constructs are  
defined, but not too heavy on examples.  I say it complements Smith's  
and Harrop's books nicely in a way of a "boring" book going through  
all of the language in sequence -- something which was sorely  
missing.  If you force yourself to read it in a day, you'll find new  
things to old constructs when you're a an intermediate user.

Cheers,
Alexy

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Nathaniel Gray]

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Sorry, this was meant to go to the list as well:

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Nathaniel Gray <n8gray@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Richard Jones <rich@annexia.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 09:37:05AM -0800, Nathaniel Gray wrote:
>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Richard Jones <rich@annexia.org> wrote:
>>> > I previously mentioned this book on the list and said that I'd been
>>> > promised a review copy from the publisher:
>>> >
>>> >
http://www.amazon.com/Objective-Caml-Programming-Language/dp/0981599206
>>> >
>>> > I received the review copy from Abscissa Press yesterday and I have
>>> > read the first few chapters.  This book is in fact the Jason Hickey
>>> > book which has been floating around on the net for a while, updated by
>>> > Tim Rentsch who I think is Jason's colleague or student.
>>>
>>> As someone who *was* Jason's student, I'd suggest that if that book is
>>> clearly derived from Jason's book but Jason's name isn't on the cover
>>> you should definitely be asking questions about that.  I would say
>>> more but I don't want to put words in Jason's mouth.
>>
>> I don't think there is any suggestion that it was plagiarised from
>> him.  In fact I think the author mentions Jason in the introduction ...
>
> The list time I spoke to Jason he had a deal with a major publisher
> for his book.  I think it's safe to say that there is no chance that
> Jason would allow somebody to publish his book or a derived work
> without his name on the cover.
>
> Cheers,
> -n8
>
> --
> Nathan Gray
> http://www.n8gray.org/
>

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Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[William Neumann]

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The Jan. 11, 2008 pdf copy of his book says:

"This book has been submitted for publication by Cambridge University Press.
This draft may be used until the time the book appears in print"

I don't know what the current status of that publication is, however.

2009/2/27 Nathaniel Gray <n8gray@gmail.com>

> Sorry, this was meant to go to the list as well:
>
> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Nathaniel Gray <n8gray@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Richard Jones <rich@annexia.org> wrote:
> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 09:37:05AM -0800, Nathaniel Gray wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Richard Jones <rich@annexia.org>
> wrote:
> >>> > I previously mentioned this book on the list and said that I'd been
> >>> > promised a review copy from the publisher:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> http://www.amazon.com/Objective-Caml-Programming-Language/dp/0981599206
> >>> >
> >>> > I received the review copy from Abscissa Press yesterday and I have
> >>> > read the first few chapters.  This book is in fact the Jason Hickey
> >>> > book which has been floating around on the net for a while, updated
> by
> >>> > Tim Rentsch who I think is Jason's colleague or student.
> >>>
> >>> As someone who *was* Jason's student, I'd suggest that if that book is
> >>> clearly derived from Jason's book but Jason's name isn't on the cover
> >>> you should definitely be asking questions about that.  I would say
> >>> more but I don't want to put words in Jason's mouth.
> >>
> >> I don't think there is any suggestion that it was plagiarised from
> >> him.  In fact I think the author mentions Jason in the introduction ...
> >
> > The list time I spoke to Jason he had a deal with a major publisher
> > for his book.  I think it's safe to say that there is no chance that
> > Jason would allow somebody to publish his book or a derived work
> > without his name on the cover.
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -n8
> >
> > --
> > Nathan Gray
> > http://www.n8gray.org/
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management:
> http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list
> Archives: http://caml.inria.fr
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>

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Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Jon Harrop]

On Friday 27 February 2009 14:28:58 Tom Hutchinson wrote:
> I know a people have resorted to just printing out the pdf of the
> draft. Great to finally buy this in a normal form.
>
> Never heard of the publisher though.

Looks like the publisher was created just to publish this book, as we created 
Flying Frog to publish OCaml for Scientists four years ago.

The publishers were kind enough to send me a complimentary copy so I shall 
blog a review on OCaml News in due course. Suffice to say that the content 
(264 pages from the main 17 chapters) is excellent from a purely theoretical 
standpoint and, I would say, targets undergrad computer scientists preparing 
to sit exams about OCaml. The book covers advanced topics in detail and 
contains lots of academic exercises. In particular, about a third of the book 
is devoted to OCaml's approach to object oriented programming.

-- 
Dr Jon Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?e

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Jon Harrop]

On Friday 27 February 2009 18:52:25 William Neumann wrote:
> The Jan. 11, 2008 pdf copy of his book says:
>
> "This book has been submitted for publication by Cambridge University
> Press. This draft may be used until the time the book appears in print"
>
> I don't know what the current status of that publication is, however.

Sounds like the ideal time to concoct some conspiracy theories. Perhaps Jason 
signed up with CUP for royalties and they sat on the book so Tim "remembered" 
that he was actually the real author and had it published through a company 
that is actually a front for Primatech paper:

  http://www.primatechpaper.com

Any takers?

-- 
Dr Jon Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?e

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Jason Hickey]

Richard,

Thank you for pointing this out, I was unaware of this book.  My book
on OCaml (currently circulating as an online pdf) is under contract
with Cambridge University Press.

I haven't read Mr. Rentsch's book (I just ordered a copy from Amazon).
 I should point out that I have neither authorized nor endorsed Mr.
Rentsch's book, nor have I given permission to use any text that I
have written.  It would be heartbreaking to me if this work were to be
published without my permission -- I started writing in 2000, and the
text has been through many classes and much writing.  I must assume
Tim wrote his text independently.  Still, I look forward to seeing a
copy.

Jason

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Jon Harrop <jon@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
> On Friday 27 February 2009 14:28:58 Tom Hutchinson wrote:
>> I know a people have resorted to just printing out the pdf of the
>> draft. Great to finally buy this in a normal form.
>>
>> Never heard of the publisher though.
>
> Looks like the publisher was created just to publish this book, as we created
> Flying Frog to publish OCaml for Scientists four years ago.
>
> The publishers were kind enough to send me a complimentary copy so I shall
> blog a review on OCaml News in due course. Suffice to say that the content
> (264 pages from the main 17 chapters) is excellent from a purely theoretical
> standpoint and, I would say, targets undergrad computer scientists preparing
> to sit exams about OCaml. The book covers advanced topics in detail and
> contains lots of academic exercises. In particular, about a third of the book
> is devoted to OCaml's approach to object oriented programming.
>
> --
> Dr Jon Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
> http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?e
>
> _______________________________________________
> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management:
> http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list
> Archives: http://caml.inria.fr
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Jon Harrop]

On Friday 27 February 2009 20:22:04 Jason Hickey wrote:
> Thank you for pointing this out, I was unaware of this book.  My book
> on OCaml (currently circulating as an online pdf) is under contract
> with Cambridge University Press.

When will CUP publish it?

> I haven't read Mr. Rentsch's book (I just ordered a copy from Amazon).
>  I should point out that I have neither authorized nor endorsed Mr.
> Rentsch's book, nor have I given permission to use any text that I
> have written.  It would be heartbreaking to me if this work were to be
> published without my permission -- I started writing in 2000, and the
> text has been through many classes and much writing.  I must assume
> Tim wrote his text independently.  Still, I look forward to seeing a
> copy.

Oh dear. Then I am very sorry to tell you that Tim Rentsch's book is virtually 
identical to your own, having been tweaked just enough to evade copyright.

I am just comparing your PDF with the free copy Abscissa Press sent me and it 
is almost a verbatim replica right down to errors in your text and parts of 
code examples that you chose at random (e.g. all of the example expressions 
involving chars and strings are literally identical to those from your book).

-- 
Dr Jon Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?e

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Dario Teixeira]

Hi,

> Oh dear. Then I am very sorry to tell you that Tim Rentsch's book is
> virtually identical to your own, having been tweaked just enough to
> evade copyright.

Should this be confirmed (namely by Jason Hickey himself), the comments
section at Amazon and other online stores may prove useful in pointing
people to Jason's book instead (once it comes out)...

Cheers,
Dario Teixeira

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Richard Jones]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:52:25PM -0600, William Neumann wrote:
> The Jan. 11, 2008 pdf copy of his book says:
> 
> "This book has been submitted for publication by Cambridge University Press.
> This draft may be used until the time the book appears in print"
> 
> I don't know what the current status of that publication is, however.

Well that was probably before CUP decided to lay off 150 staff:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/7890037.stm

Rich.


-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Richard Jones]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:22:04PM -0800, Jason Hickey wrote:
> Thank you for pointing this out, I was unaware of this book.  My book
> on OCaml (currently circulating as an online pdf) is under contract
> with Cambridge University Press.
> 
> I haven't read Mr. Rentsch's book (I just ordered a copy from Amazon).
>  I should point out that I have neither authorized nor endorsed Mr.
> Rentsch's book, nor have I given permission to use any text that I
> have written.  It would be heartbreaking to me if this work were to be
> published without my permission -- I started writing in 2000, and the
> text has been through many classes and much writing.  I must assume
> Tim wrote his text independently.  Still, I look forward to seeing a
> copy.

Right, I just read this - so ignore my comment(s) in the other threads.

This is definitely entering into the world of strange.

The "Tim Rentsch" book is, seemingly, an updated copy of the Jason
Hickey draft that has been floating around on the internet.
Unauthorized, it would seem.

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Jon Harrop]

On Friday 27 February 2009 21:34:35 Jon Harrop wrote:
> Oh dear. Then I am very sorry to tell you that Tim Rentsch's book is
> virtually identical to your own, having been tweaked just enough to evade
> copyright.

Actually the later chapters (about a third of the main text) are entirely 
different.

-- 
Dr Jon Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?e

Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch)

[Tim Rentsch]

I should add one more thing, which is, I do subscribe to the caml-list
email list, but lately I've been busy with other things and haven't
been reading it.  Since this topic has come up obviously I plan on
starting reading it again, and also reviewing recent messages to
see if any others should be responded to.  I should be starting
that review sometime later today, and responding (if necessary)
over the next day or so, depending on what's been posted.