[Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Marshall]

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I’m an OCaml beginner, so you would think that I would find the OCaml beginners’ list helpful.  However, every interaction I have with Yahoo groups just pushes me away.  There are obnoxious ads in the web interface, which is not very intuitive anyway.  I could use the beginners list/group via email, but that would require using my Yahoo email address, which I don’t have set up on any of my mail clients.  When I go into the Yahoo web mail interface, I mainly see a list of junk mail that I don’t care about, so I don’t want to use the Yahoo address.  More than once, I have thought, “I should use the OCaml beginners’ list.”  When I start to go down that path, I stop.  Yahoo groups are too distasteful.  I’m not sure how many other people feel this way, but surely I’m not alone.  That means that for some new OCaml users, the public face of OCaml support pushes us away.  So sending new users to the Yahoo group seems unhelpful to the growth of OCaml.

I personally find Google groups easier to use.  They’re not perfect, but the web interface doesn’t include ads.  Might it be a good thing to move the beginners’ list to Google groups or some other system?  Obviously, this change should not be done suddenly.  There would have to be period—possibly indefinite—during which both lists were available.

(At present, when I want help on OCaml questions, I go to StackOverflow, where people have been very helpful.  This is a good solution for me, and it’s easy to browse the latest OCaml questions.  However, the way that the ocaml.org community page is set up encourages beginners to use the Yahoo group.  There is a StackOverflow icon down at the bottom of the page, but you have to investigate that on your own.  In any event, I do like the idea of using an online group or mailing list focused on beginners questions, so I personally would welcome a beginners Google group.  I don’t expect to use the Yahoo group.)


Marshall Abrams

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Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 11:09:41AM -0500, Marshall wrote:
> I’m an OCaml beginner, so you would think that I would find the OCaml 
> beginners’ list helpful.  However, every interaction I have with Yahoo 
> groups just pushes me away.  There are obnoxious ads in the web 
> interface, which is not very intuitive anyway.  I could use the 
> beginners list/group via email, but that would require using my Yahoo 
> email address, which I don’t have set up on any of my mail clients.  
> When I go into the Yahoo web mail interface, I mainly see a list of 
> junk mail that I don’t care about, so I don’t want to use the Yahoo 
> address.  More than once, I have thought, “I should use the OCaml 
> beginners’ list.”  When I start to go down that path, I stop.  Yahoo 
> groups are too distasteful.  I’m not sure how many other people feel 
> this way, but surely I’m not alone.  That means that for some new 
> OCaml users, the public face of OCaml support pushes us away.  So 
> sending new users to the Yahoo group seems unhelpful to the growth of 
> OCaml.

The best way I've found to read the OCaml beginners mailing list is 
to use the Pan usenet browser, aiming it at the usenet group 
gmane.comp.lang.ocaml.beginners at news.gmane.org.

It beatss any web email interface I've used.  And if you don't like Pan, 
there are other news readers.

Please keep this usenet gateway alive.

-- hendrik

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 03:58:13PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 11:09:41AM -0500, Marshall wrote:
> > I’m an OCaml beginner, so you would think that I would find the OCaml 
> > beginners’ list helpful.  However, every interaction I have with Yahoo 
> > groups just pushes me away.  There are obnoxious ads in the web 
> > interface, which is not very intuitive anyway.  I could use the 
> > beginners list/group via email, but that would require using my Yahoo 
> > email address, which I don’t have set up on any of my mail clients.  
> > When I go into the Yahoo web mail interface, I mainly see a list of 
> > junk mail that I don’t care about, so I don’t want to use the Yahoo 
> > address.  More than once, I have thought, “I should use the OCaml 
> > beginners’ list.”  When I start to go down that path, I stop.  Yahoo 
> > groups are too distasteful.  I’m not sure how many other people feel 
> > this way, but surely I’m not alone.  That means that for some new 
> > OCaml users, the public face of OCaml support pushes us away.  So 
> > sending new users to the Yahoo group seems unhelpful to the growth of 
> > OCaml.
> 
> The best way I've found to read the OCaml beginners mailing list is 
> to use the Pan usenet browser, aiming it at the usenet group 
> gmane.comp.lang.ocaml.beginners at news.gmane.org.
> 
> It beatss any web email interface I've used.  And if you don't like Pan, 
> there are other news readers.

Reading it as incoming email works fine, too.

-- hendrik

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Oliver Bandel]

Webinterface necessary?
I prefer to use mail for a *mail*inglist ;-)

Wouldn't be a university a good place to host such a mailing list?
Or what about inria?
(But the archive is ugly for caml-list - mailman-based mailinglists  
are much better at this point.)

I also could set up a mailinglist on in-berlin.de. (Mailman-based.)
But I think a university would be a much better place for such a mailing-list.


Ciao,
    Oliver




Zitat von Marshall <marshall@logical.net> (Thu, 11 May 2017 11:09:41 -0500)

> I’m an OCaml beginner, so you would think that I would find the  
> OCaml beginners’ list helpful.  However, every interaction I have  
> with Yahoo groups just pushes me away.  There are obnoxious ads in  
> the web interface, which is not very intuitive anyway.  I could use  
> the beginners list/group via email, but that would require using my  
> Yahoo email address, which I don’t have set up on any of my mail  
> clients.  When I go into the Yahoo web mail interface, I mainly see  
> a list of junk mail that I don’t care about, so I don’t want to use  
> the Yahoo address.  More than once, I have thought, “I should use  
> the OCaml beginners’ list.”  When I start to go down that path, I  
> stop.  Yahoo groups are too distasteful.  I’m not sure how many  
> other people feel this way, but surely I’m not alone.  That means  
> that for some new OCaml users, the public face of OCaml support  
> pushes us away.  So sending new users to the Yahoo group seems  
> unhelpful to the growth of OCaml.
>
> I personally find Google groups easier to use.  They’re not perfect,  
> but the web interface doesn’t include ads.  Might it be a good thing  
> to move the beginners’ list to Google groups or some other system?   
> Obviously, this change should not be done suddenly.  There would  
> have to be period—possibly indefinite—during which both lists were  
> available.
>
> (At present, when I want help on OCaml questions, I go to  
> StackOverflow, where people have been very helpful.  This is a good  
> solution for me, and it’s easy to browse the latest OCaml questions.  
>  However, the way that the ocaml.org community page is set up  
> encourages beginners to use the Yahoo group.  There is a  
> StackOverflow icon down at the bottom of the page, but you have to  
> investigate that on your own.  In any event, I do like the idea of  
> using an online group or mailing list focused on beginners  
> questions, so I personally would welcome a beginners Google group.   
> I don’t expect to use the Yahoo group.)
>
>
> Marshall Abrams
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Oliver Bandel]

BTW: On freenode (IRC) there is #ocaml

Ciao,
    Oliver



Zitat von Marshall <marshall@logical.net> (Thu, 11 May 2017 11:09:41 -0500)

> I’m an OCaml beginner, so you would think that I would find the  
> OCaml beginners’ list helpful.  However, every interaction I have  
> with Yahoo groups just pushes me away.  There are obnoxious ads in  
> the web interface, which is not very intuitive anyway.  I could use  
> the beginners list/group via email, but that would require using my  
> Yahoo email address, which I don’t have set up on any of my mail  
> clients.  When I go into the Yahoo web mail interface, I mainly see  
> a list of junk mail that I don’t care about, so I don’t want to use  
> the Yahoo address.  More than once, I have thought, “I should use  
> the OCaml beginners’ list.”  When I start to go down that path, I  
> stop.  Yahoo groups are too distasteful.  I’m not sure how many  
> other people feel this way, but surely I’m not alone.  That means  
> that for some new OCaml users, the public face of OCaml support  
> pushes us away.  So sending new users to the Yahoo group seems  
> unhelpful to the growth of OCaml.
>
> I personally find Google groups easier to use.  They’re not perfect,  
> but the web interface doesn’t include ads.  Might it be a good thing  
> to move the beginners’ list to Google groups or some other system?   
> Obviously, this change should not be done suddenly.  There would  
> have to be period—possibly indefinite—during which both lists were  
> available.
>
> (At present, when I want help on OCaml questions, I go to  
> StackOverflow, where people have been very helpful.  This is a good  
> solution for me, and it’s easy to browse the latest OCaml questions.  
>  However, the way that the ocaml.org community page is set up  
> encourages beginners to use the Yahoo group.  There is a  
> StackOverflow icon down at the bottom of the page, but you have to  
> investigate that on your own.  In any event, I do like the idea of  
> using an online group or mailing list focused on beginners  
> questions, so I personally would welcome a beginners Google group.   
> I don’t expect to use the Yahoo group.)
>
>
> Marshall Abrams
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Hongbo Zhang (BLOOMBERG/ 731 LEX)]

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Hi Marshall,
    I am currently the admin of ocaml beginners list. I share with your pain points. I had to create a new yahoo account to maintain it(Yahoo used to accept gmail account, but they changed their policy lately), and I kept forgetting the password, since the sole purpose of yahoo account is to maintain the mailing list.
   Would anyone be interested in help the migration(or we can create a gitter/slack/discord chatroom)? As long as people from INIRIA agree, I would be happy to transfer the maintenance to a new leader.
   FYI, currently there is an online chatroom talking about OCaml: https://discord.gg/reasonml
   Thanks -- Hongbo
From: marshall@logical.net At: 05/11/17 12:10:45
To: caml-list@inria.fr
Subject: Re:[Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

I’m an OCaml beginner, so you would think that I would find the OCaml beginners’ list helpful.  However, every interaction I have with Yahoo groups just pushes me away.  There are obnoxious ads in the web interface, which is not very intuitive anyway.  I could use the beginners list/group via email, but that would require using my Yahoo email address, which I don’t have set up on any of my mail clients.  When I go into the Yahoo web mail interface, I mainly see a list of junk mail that I don’t care about, so I don’t want to use the Yahoo address.  More than once, I have thought, “I should use the OCaml beginners’ list.”  When I start to go down that path, I stop.  Yahoo groups are too distasteful.  I’m not sure how many other people feel this way, but surely I’m not alone.  That means that for some new OCaml users, the public face of OCaml support pushes us away.  So sending new users to the Yahoo group seems unhelpful to the growth of OCaml.

I personally find Google groups easier to use.  They’re not perfect, but the web interface doesn’t include ads.  Might it be a good thing to move the beginners’ list to Google groups or some other system?  Obviously, this change should not be done suddenly.  There would have to be period—possibly indefinite—during which both lists were available.

(At present, when I want help on OCaml questions, I go to StackOverflow, where people have been very helpful.  This is a good solution for me, and it’s easy to browse the latest OCaml questions.  However, the way that the ocaml.org community page is set up encourages beginners to use the Yahoo group.  There is a StackOverflow icon down at the bottom of the page, but you have to investigate that on your own.  In any event, I do like the idea of using an online group or mailing list focused on beginners questions, so I personally would welcome a beginners Google group.  I don’t expect to use the Yahoo group.)


Marshall Abrams


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Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Gabriel Scherer]

As an irregular contributor to the ocaml beginners list, I share the
dislike of yahoo lists. I would be happy to keep contributing with an
email-based workflow, and it seems that Google groups would indeed be
an improvement (I don't know about the chatroom solutions that Hongbo
has in mind).

I have a personal preference for open and open-source-based solutions,
but Google groups is no worse than Yahoo groups in this respect (and
better in most others), and the use of a standard communication
protocol (email) gives freedom in letting other participants choose
their stack.
StackOverflow also plays a useful role for beginners and I'm glad that
the OCaml community usefully engages people there. (We have to answer
beginners where they are.)

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Hongbo Zhang (BLOOMBERG/ 731 LEX)
<hzhang295@bloomberg.net> wrote:
> Hi Marshall,
> I am currently the admin of ocaml beginners list. I share with your pain
> points. I had to create a new yahoo account to maintain it(Yahoo used to
> accept gmail account, but they changed their policy lately), and I kept
> forgetting the password, since the sole purpose of yahoo account is to
> maintain the mailing list.
> Would anyone be interested in help the migration(or we can create a
> gitter/slack/discord chatroom)? As long as people from INIRIA agree, I would
> be happy to transfer the maintenance to a new leader.
> FYI, currently there is an online chatroom talking about OCaml:
> https://discord.gg/reasonml
> Thanks -- Hongbo
> From: marshall@logical.net At: 05/11/17 12:10:45
> To: caml-list@inria.fr
> Subject: Re:[Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?
>
> I’m an OCaml beginner, so you would think that I would find the OCaml
> beginners’ list helpful.  However, every interaction I have with Yahoo
> groups just pushes me away.  There are obnoxious ads in the web interface,
> which is not very intuitive anyway.  I could use the beginners list/group
> via email, but that would require using my Yahoo email address, which I
> don’t have set up on any of my mail clients.  When I go into the Yahoo web
> mail interface, I mainly see a list of junk mail that I don’t care about, so
> I don’t want to use the Yahoo address.  More than once, I have thought, “I
> should use the OCaml beginners’ list.”  When I start to go down that path, I
> stop.  Yahoo groups are too distasteful.  I’m not sure how many other people
> feel this way, but surely I’m not alone.  That means that for some new OCaml
> users, the public face of OCaml support pushes us away.  So sending new
> users to the Yahoo group seems unhelpful to the growth of OCaml.
>
> I personally find Google groups easier to use.  They’re not perfect, but the
> web interface doesn’t include ads.  Might it be a good thing to move the
> beginners’ list to Google groups or some other system?  Obviously, this
> change should not be done suddenly.  There would have to be period—possibly
> indefinite—during which both lists were available.
>
> (At present, when I want help on OCaml questions, I go to StackOverflow,
> where people have been very helpful.  This is a good solution for me, and
> it’s easy to browse the latest OCaml questions.  However, the way that the
> ocaml.org community page is set up encourages beginners to use the Yahoo
> group.  There is a StackOverflow icon down at the bottom of the page, but
> you have to investigate that on your own.  In any event, I do like the idea
> of using an online group or mailing list focused on beginners questions, so
> I personally would welcome a beginners Google group.  I don’t expect to use
> the Yahoo group.)
>
>
> Marshall Abrams
>
>

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Daniel Bünzli]

On Thursday, 11 May 2017 at 20:10, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
> I would be happy to keep contributing with an email-based workflow,

What about http://lists.ocaml.org/ ? 

Best,

Daniel

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Anil Madhavapeddy]

On 11 May 2017, at 20:19, Daniel Bünzli <daniel.buenzli@erratique.ch> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, 11 May 2017 at 20:10, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
>> I would be happy to keep contributing with an email-based workflow,
> 
> What about http://lists.ocaml.org/ ? 

We can create a beginners list there very easily on request (infrastructure@lists.ocaml.org).

One other option that I can arrange to setup is Discourse (discourse.org), which is an open-source forum with a nice e-mail gateway (so it can be used purely in email based mode as well).  Quite a few open source projects use it as a good method of asynchronous communication.

There is a hosted version that I can arrange to be installed on a ocaml.org subdomain, but I will need at least a couple of volunteers to create categories and act as administrators for the site.

An advantage of such a Discourse-based forum is that it should be possible for OCaml library authors to easily create categories on the same forum to direct users of their software to, with minimal reconfiguration required. It would be great to have an area for those (e.g.) interested in JavaScript compilation to go to.

To see an example of Discourse in action, the Rust user forum is one good example: https://users.rust-lang.org.

regards,
Anil

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Christophe Troestler]

Hi,

Discourse sounds like a nice solution to me, meeting the various points 
that were expressed.

My 0.02€,
C.

On 2017-05-11, Anil Madhavapeddy wrote:
> 
> On 11 May 2017, at 20:19, Daniel Bünzli <daniel.buenzli@erratique.ch> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > On Thursday, 11 May 2017 at 20:10, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
> >> I would be happy to keep contributing with an email-based workflow,
> > 
> > What about http://lists.ocaml.org/ ? 
> 
> We can create a beginners list there very easily on request 
> (infrastructure@lists.ocaml.org).
> 
> One other option that I can arrange to setup is Discourse 
> (discourse.org), which is an open-source forum with a nice e-mail 
> gateway (so it can be used purely in email based mode as well).  Quite 
> a few open source projects use it as a good method of asynchronous 
> communication.
> 
> There is a hosted version that I can arrange to be installed on a 
> ocaml.org subdomain, but I will need at least a couple of volunteers 
> to create categories and act as administrators for the site.
> 
> An advantage of such a Discourse-based forum is that it should be 
> possible for OCaml library authors to easily create categories on the 
> same forum to direct users of their software to, with minimal 
> reconfiguration required. It would be great to have an area for those 
> (e.g.) interested in JavaScript compilation to go to.
> 
> To see an example of Discourse in action, the Rust user forum is one 
> good example: https://users.rust-lang.org.
> 
> regards,
> Anil
> 
> -- 
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Gabriel Scherer]

I'm fine with having a different mailing-list or Discourse or both
(beginner questions tend to be relatively independent, so I don't see
much downside in having two places if we think both can appeal
different people), and would be happy to keep irregularly helping
there. But we need people to volunteer to deploy and maintain these
places.

(Re. Discourse, see the (positive) feedback I got from
users.rust-lang.org on their Discourse instance:
https://users.rust-lang.org/t/what-are-rusts-discourse-hosting-plans-and-time-requirement/6462
)

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Christophe Troestler
<Christophe.Troestler@umons.ac.be> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Discourse sounds like a nice solution to me, meeting the various points that
> were expressed.
>
> My 0.02€,
> C.
>
>
> On 2017-05-11, Anil Madhavapeddy wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 11 May 2017, at 20:19, Daniel Bünzli <daniel.buenzli@erratique.ch>
>> wrote:
>> > > On Thursday, 11 May 2017 at 20:10, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
>> >> I would be happy to keep contributing with an email-based workflow,
>> > > What about http://lists.ocaml.org/ ?
>> We can create a beginners list there very easily on request
>> (infrastructure@lists.ocaml.org).
>>
>> One other option that I can arrange to setup is Discourse (discourse.org),
>> which is an open-source forum with a nice e-mail gateway (so it can be used
>> purely in email based mode as well).  Quite a few open source projects use
>> it as a good method of asynchronous communication.
>>
>> There is a hosted version that I can arrange to be installed on a
>> ocaml.org subdomain, but I will need at least a couple of volunteers to
>> create categories and act as administrators for the site.
>>
>> An advantage of such a Discourse-based forum is that it should be possible
>> for OCaml library authors to easily create categories on the same forum to
>> direct users of their software to, with minimal reconfiguration required. It
>> would be great to have an area for those (e.g.) interested in JavaScript
>> compilation to go to.
>>
>> To see an example of Discourse in action, the Rust user forum is one good
>> example: https://users.rust-lang.org.
>>
>> regards,
>> Anil
>>
>> --
>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Runhang Li]

Hi, all

+1 for Discourse.

Personally I have no preference over mailing list/IRC/Slack/Discourse. But in order
to appeal to and grow our community, we'd better set up some modern
infrastructure besides Yahoo mailing list and IRC.

And I would love to help maintain Discourse in my free time.

> On May 11, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Gabriel Scherer <gabriel.scherer@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm fine with having a different mailing-list or Discourse or both
> (beginner questions tend to be relatively independent, so I don't see
> much downside in having two places if we think both can appeal
> different people), and would be happy to keep irregularly helping
> there. But we need people to volunteer to deploy and maintain these
> places.
> 
> (Re. Discourse, see the (positive) feedback I got from
> users.rust-lang.org on their Discourse instance:
> https://users.rust-lang.org/t/what-are-rusts-discourse-hosting-plans-and-time-requirement/6462
> )
> 
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Christophe Troestler
> <Christophe.Troestler@umons.ac.be> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Discourse sounds like a nice solution to me, meeting the various points that
>> were expressed.
>> 
>> My 0.02€,
>> C.
>> 
>> 
>> On 2017-05-11, Anil Madhavapeddy wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11 May 2017, at 20:19, Daniel Bünzli <daniel.buenzli@erratique.ch>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, 11 May 2017 at 20:10, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
>>>>> I would be happy to keep contributing with an email-based workflow,
>>>>> What about http://lists.ocaml.org/ ?
>>> We can create a beginners list there very easily on request
>>> (infrastructure@lists.ocaml.org).
>>> 
>>> One other option that I can arrange to setup is Discourse (discourse.org),
>>> which is an open-source forum with a nice e-mail gateway (so it can be used
>>> purely in email based mode as well).  Quite a few open source projects use
>>> it as a good method of asynchronous communication.
>>> 
>>> There is a hosted version that I can arrange to be installed on a
>>> ocaml.org subdomain, but I will need at least a couple of volunteers to
>>> create categories and act as administrators for the site.
>>> 
>>> An advantage of such a Discourse-based forum is that it should be possible
>>> for OCaml library authors to easily create categories on the same forum to
>>> direct users of their software to, with minimal reconfiguration required. It
>>> would be great to have an area for those (e.g.) interested in JavaScript
>>> compilation to go to.
>>> 
>>> To see an example of Discourse in action, the Rust user forum is one good
>>> example: https://users.rust-lang.org.
>>> 
>>> regards,
>>> Anil
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 
> -- 
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Marshall]

I see IRC and Slack (and Gitter, I think) as playing a different role than Yahoo or Google groups and mailing lists (and Discourse, I think).  Both categories of interaction—one good for relatively fast interactions, the other with better support for long time delays—seem valuable, but in different ways.  Each category should be supported, even though Yahoo groups doesn’t seem like the best member of the second category.

There are additional comments in the Google group interface to caml-list that don’t show up in the caml-list archives (nor in my inbox).  I’m not sure why I can’t see these messages elsewhere.  There was a suggestion there to use Pan as an interface to the Yahoo group.  I don’t know anything about Pan, but if there’s a better interface that would be likely to be appealing to new users, then an option would be to promote use of that interface.  It sounds as if Pan uses a Usenet interface.  Many of us feel fondly that Usenet affected our lives in a very positive way, although in a time that seems distant now.  In my ignorance of Usenet's current state, my first thought is to wonder whether it would be ideal for appealing new users, but I don’t know the answer.

Marshall

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[Pierpaolo Bernardi]

I don't understand what is the problem. Using a Yahoo account may be
necessary for administering the list but certainly not for
participating in it.

Just send an email to list-name-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to subscribe
your regular email address to the list.

No need to have anything to do with yahoo other than this.

Re: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list?

[SP]

Please opt for an open-source open-platform for our community. Discourse
or another mailing list sound great.

-- 
    SP