From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by c5ff346549e7 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7405D5 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 08:27:40 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,324,1539640800"; d="scan'208";a="359231257" Received: from sympa.inria.fr ([193.51.193.213]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 07 Dec 2018 09:27:36 +0100 Received: by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix, from userid 20132) id 0460182566; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 09:27:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D53382548 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 09:27:21 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; spf=None smtp.pra=rich@annexia.org; spf=Pass smtp.mailfrom=rich@annexia.org; spf=Pass smtp.helo=postmaster@annexia.org IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3Ahe4boBLAzx8HCX5s8dmcpTZWNBhigK39O0sv0rFi?= =?us-ascii?q?tYgRLvjxwZ3uMQTl6Ol3ixeRBMOHs6IC07KempujcFRI2YyGvnEGfc4EfD4+ou?= =?us-ascii?q?JSoTYdBtWYA1bwNv/gYn9yNs1DUFh44yPzahANS47xaFLIv3K98yMZFAnhOgpp?= =?us-ascii?q?POT1HZPZg9iq2+yo9JDffwZFiCChbb9uMR67sRjfus4KjIV4N60/0AHJonxGe+?= =?us-ascii?q?RXwWNnO1eelAvi68mz4ZBu7T1et+ou+MBcX6r6eb84TaFDAzQ9L281/szrugLd?= =?us-ascii?q?QgaJ+3ART38ZkhtMAwjC8RH6QpL8uTb0u+ZhxCWXO9D9QKsqUjq+8ahkVB7oiD?= =?us-ascii?q?8GNzEn9mHXltdwh79frB64uhBz35LYbISTOfFjfK3SYMkaSHJPUMhRSSJPH4Cy?= =?us-ascii?q?b4UAAOUdIOlWoIvyqFUVoBuiBgShHv/jxiNSi3Pr26AxzuQvERvB3AwlB98Cvm?= =?us-ascii?q?jarNTpO6cSS++11rTHxijDYP9M3jnx8pXDfBQmofGKQ71wasTdwlQoGgPfj1Wf?= =?us-ascii?q?tYzlMiiP2eQLtWiU8eVhVeO1hGI9rAFxuDevy94qh4LUhYwV0kjJ+CZlzIovJN?= =?us-ascii?q?C1S1R3bNq5HJdKqi2XNYp7T8U/SG9yoik60KcJuZujcSgK1psnwxnfZuSdfIiO?= =?us-ascii?q?5BLsSumQITZii35/f7K/nRmy/VChyu36SMa0zE5HoylZntXWt30A1Abf58yaRv?= =?us-ascii?q?dn40us2zeC2xjW6u5eIEA0kaTbK4Qmwr41jpcTq0XDETP2mEjtlqCWcEMk9fan?= =?us-ascii?q?6uTmeLrqvJicN5V7ig3mKKQhhtS/AfgkMggJR2WU5f6z1Ljn/UHgRLVKj+Y2kr?= =?us-ascii?q?XCvZDBJcUbo7a5DBVP3oYi7Ra/FTam384CkXkJNlIWMC6A2qTgPVDDJLjSmfGt?= =?us-ascii?q?h1XkxDtiwfHLOvvrH5jLPHzCuLr7Z79h6ldBxUw4zYYMyYhTD+RLGvP4WkbruJ?= =?us-ascii?q?TnSDp/ey6zxev8Qp0pzIIVWUqGBKmUIKLb91iS6bR8cKG3eIYJtWOleLAe7Pn0?= =?us-ascii?q?gCp8wAdFJPj77d4scHm9W89eDQCcaHvojM0GFD5R7AM4SuH6iVTEViRcNS/rA/?= =?us-ascii?q?AMowojAYfjNr/tA5i3ieXaji69GJBGZ2kADUqDQy+xKte0HswUYSfXGfdP1zwJ?= =?us-ascii?q?Ub/4EN0o0xejpA7zjb19IbiN9w=3D=3D?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DDAABnLgpc/7BbRFBjGwEBAQEDAQEBB?= =?us-ascii?q?wMBAQGBZYFWLoFoJ5h1BoE1mUkNKwGEQAKDFxsGAQQ0EgEDAQECAQEBAQFsKII?= =?us-ascii?q?2JAGCYgEFMgFGEAsYCRMSDy0bBhOFFhGmX4owjB8RBng+SYN1LopcApVuinQHA?= =?us-ascii?q?gKRPSORNoJ/lhuBXSGBVX0IO4JskFtCMIEDAYpCAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DDAABnLgpc/7BbRFBjGwEBAQEDAQEBBwMBAQGBZYFWLoF?= =?us-ascii?q?oJ5h1BoE1mUkNKwGEQAKDFxsGAQQ0EgEDAQECAQEBAQFsKII2JAGCYgEFMgFGE?= =?us-ascii?q?AsYCRMSDy0bBhOFFhGmX4owjB8RBng+SYN1LopcApVuinQHAgKRPSORNoJ/lhu?= =?us-ascii?q?BXSGBVX0IO4JskFtCMIEDAYpCAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,324,1539640800"; d="scan'208";a="359231062" Received: from annexia.org ([80.68.91.176]) by mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-GCM-SHA384; 07 Dec 2018 09:26:54 +0100 Received: from rich by annexia.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gVBTH-0002y8-No; Fri, 07 Dec 2018 08:26:51 +0000 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 08:26:51 +0000 From: "Richard W.M. Jones" To: Daniel =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=FCnzli?= Cc: Yawar Amin , oliver@first.in-berlin.de, Ocaml Mailing List , Julia Lawall Message-ID: <20181207082651.6f2w5tpuiljb327p@annexia.org> References: <20181206122150.thwapr3vvudue35g@annexia.org> <20181206201823.m2ii6nm4m72qwyym@annexia.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh of them? Reply-To: "Richard W.M. Jones" X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Sequence: 17224 Errors-to: caml-list-owner@inria.fr Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: caml-list-request@inria.fr X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri, Dec 07, 2018 at 08:31:01AM +0100, Daniel Bünzli wrote: > On 6 December 2018 at 21:18:23, Richard W.M. Jones (rich@annexia.org) wrote: > > > The problem here is you've gone and invented a second package manager.  > > The problem here is rather that the fragmentation around system package managers renders the development of a consistent and cross-platform package set like is being done in the opam-repository largely undoable without an indirection -- the latter materializing as these nth (sadly usually language specific) package managers. > > > Linux distros already have a package manager, used by users and > > developers alike. The package manager solves a whole lot of stuff > > like maintaining the whole system, dependencies, releases, security updates, > > mirroring and distribution, etc. Having a second one (and let's face > > it if you're using things like npm, cargo, etc., a third, fourth) > > complicates everything. > > It surely does.  > > I suspect that if linux distributions had agreed on a single package manager (or even metadata format and package **names**), if this one had added a few developer friendly features (e.g. universes to easily distinguish what you want to compile a project from what you want for your system) and if it had been ported to other platforms we wouldn't need all these language specific package managers. But that's a lot of unfufilled ifs... > > The fact that opam v2 became language agnostic largely supports this point. In some of my projects that's the actual package manager I'm using as my integration layer for C packages. > > > However there is likely a good answer here: Tooling to turn opam  > > packages into RPMs, Debian packages, etc. > > Maybe we should do this the other way round ;-) There are already efforts to replace all Linux distro package managers, but they don't have much traction and there's no particular reason to think that opam is in a good position either, especially since it does about 5% of what a Linux distro package manager can do. Most people who want per-user packaging are now using containers, using the existing Linux distro package managers. Anyway, tools to take opam metadata and convert it to spec files and debian/rules are welcome. Rich. -- Richard Jones -- Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/ Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs