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Jan 2022 15:30:09 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1642429809; bh=C3yYQBUr9RLH3yCOl6HMgI5JBH47nwl0arrCi5w6sVE=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From; b=Fr1I+k5qgx3xQDn6mnmXUjuhCQYVf66hAQNM40HRkRoIGZfVIzDNcOPQwBVIhln7u EupK1OIY0KfNyPALtxhAM7Xy9Ds+db4bcAE86F3A868ZK+r8cnbRBWxNqYmjwOGf3Z b61gUnIkOQQbseRFUJUf2Vmrxzha+l1RVtOxt5F8yWguXJXWYkwOIhLDznLhBHZUKX IOPMZPxiWs+V/nRWJw+QzbU8e8whuZ6c8yiByu14o+MsgsKygYSiaT0/ldALVWD3O3 2ys0yww7WOj/rvdq/jfrivN3gEBbRPWyP42NzUSbd5KGzYdOJYSCYh0/QmZ4022n3d kmQGxtQewhMrw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4JcvSc0vTRz6tn7 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 15:30:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 14:30:05 +0000 From: Sam Kuper To: caml-list@inria.fr Message-ID: <20220117143005.qso775afaro24bi4@posteo.de> Mail-Followup-To: caml-list@inria.fr References: <23103341-7872-bc5b-d519-ecadce690d20@orbitalfox.eu> <20220116143149.mucve4i2dm2gvo3d@posteo.de> <714c3a8d-25c8-c91e-ae01-46bf00920ffd@baturin.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <714c3a8d-25c8-c91e-ae01-46bf00920ffd@baturin.org> Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Ask questions on the mailing lists too Reply-To: Sam Kuper X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Sequence: 18654 Errors-To: caml-list-owner@inria.fr Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: caml-list-request@inria.fr X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 04:33:49PM +0700, Daniil Baturin wrote: > Discourse is NOT a service-as-a-software-substitute. You are only partly correct, and not for the reason you gave below. I probably should have been clearer, so let me clarify my earlier claim. # FREE SOFTWARE > It's free software distributed under GPLv2. See > https://github.com/discourse/discourse I was aware of the license before I made the statement about SaaSS. SaaSS does not imply "proprietary": "SaaSS and proprietary software lead to similar harmful results, but the mechanisms are different. With proprietary software, the mechanism is that you have and use a copy which is difficult and/or illegal to change. With SaaSS, the mechanism is that you don't have the copy that's doing your computing. ... Many free software supporters assume that the problem of SaaSS will be solved by developing free software for servers. ... But if the programs on the server are free, that doesn't protect the server's users from the effects of SaaSS. These programs liberate the server operator, but not the server's users."[1] So, on that ground in isolation, I was not wrong to call hosted Discourse instances SaaSS. (If Discourse were licensed as AGPLv3 instead of GPLv2+, then I *might* have been wrong to do so. I haven't examined that point here, though.) # SaaSS VS OTHER NETWORK SERVICES SaaSS implies a failure to do "your own computing on data in your own hands".[1] Insofar as Discourse facilitates exchange of data between people, therefore - e.g. to the extent that it replicates the functionality of traditional mailing list manager (MLM) software - it is *not* SaaSS. However, Discourse, like most forum software, doesn't just replace the MLM. It also replaces the MUA and the features for local data-processing that the MUA provides: a UI for reading posts and composing replies, search/browse functionality, etc. Those (anti-)features, strictly speaking, constitute SaaSS. That might not be bad if, like good MLMs, Discourse instances also provided e.g. Mbox discussion archives for easy downloading and local usage, so that users could easily avoid the SaaSS. But unfortunately, Discourse imposes accessibility and inconvenience barriers against downloading that data for local usage. Thank you for your patience and understanding, Sam [1]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html