From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DCB0BC37 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:35:23 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: An0CAC9xn0pDww/HlWdsb2JhbACSAXqHIIEhAQEBAQkLCAkRrWKBJ5AnAQUDAYQXBYFX X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,325,1249250400"; d="scan'208";a="32151266" Received: from web111512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([67.195.15.199]) by mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with SMTP; 03 Sep 2009 16:35:22 +0200 Received: (qmail 45637 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2009 14:35:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1251988521; bh=g7Hwcl+FxebqmnKO5/8fslInXkZ4txXIRCCGxc08wJw=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=x5UtrHiFyhSdVPRasjtZU4Uf54d0QAcV4Auv8U9dwClqtIi4ifdl52p/v5tkL70h4BspzqW/gMkmzI/gbD3LDsxkMjO14SLL4ECv5cwYTz3HcvHu6adOYaWOUgln6sWs5LoKZeUqsK5+x1YDV3ZJ57G06c5mktxvWIp+LS3giKU= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=5UHpjT59TpsD6WNnTWSAS+kxsGPxitte2Tyh/1Ig/OiSfLVfArfXSez+Eg2tdtWbMVjGChbLXMEeCU5eHkuwGS9jS7opG9pjv2DGI/ZNtEq/4wRWMhU/F3pgN+ZCFdxRCMtyxXX2H4AQ4EhJJ6jPVvm2+QZjwLMJSJvrzOZK4DU=; Message-ID: <32407.45042.qm@web111512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: BUwdROoVM1lmYhAlySDEqUw0CDGthao9EI8rT.d9jTT1mxGn8tlpvJdI9mSSnW61O9jEPcQhclru6JjLfNgeNrSc0IcOeBTXcWeDfHn.6x0nBzBnZA6bROabybqoD8C5csEb7bCa8LwuX1PWU5nJhEPZmWlVrMsa8RG4qJjN4li8yf_dP8urJpTQcRZSeNtwFUflN0XKoUHfl.MWdebPEuM6M12GqVVgjGMbu0pG8cwN7Mi5Jv91a7lGDwsk0J4X7QHt1P97CO6u.y6PB2q1WC.qCT_yHg4qr1UvUQ-- Received: from [213.205.71.63] by web111512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:35:20 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 07:35:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Dario Teixeira Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Why don't you use batteries? To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr, Edgar Friendly In-Reply-To: <4A9FBF04.1060608@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam: no; 0.00; dependencies:01 camlp:01 haskell:01 ocaml:01 extensively:01 overnight:98 1.0:98 campaign:98 compile:01 compile:01 caml-list:01 executables:01 apis:03 seems:03 module:03 Hi,=0A=0A> It seems like batteries' adoption isn't quite as thorough as exp= ected.=0A> We in the batteries devel team would love to know why you don't = use=0A> batteries.=A0 Here's some of our guesses:=0A=0ABatteries is a great= project, and you guys shouldn't feel discouraged=0Aif it doesn't take over= the world overnight. There's unfamiliarity and=0Ainertia to overcome, and= that takes time. Personally, I've installed=0ABatteries and played with i= t, but I'm not using it (yet) on my projects.=0AGoing back to your list, he= re's why:=0A =0A> 2) It's not 1.0 yet, I'll try it then=0A=0AThat's indeed = a factor.=0A=0A=0A> 3) It makes my executables too big=0A=0AThis used to be= a bigger problem. Previous versions of Batteries would=0Apack everything = into a module, disabling the linker's ability to link=0Aonly effectively us= ed code. Thankfully newer versions are going towards=0Aa flatter hierarchy= .=0A=0A=0A> 4) It's too hard to install (dependencies, godi failures)=0A=0A= Never ran into this problem.=0A=0A=0A> 5) It's difficult to compile against= =0A=0ANot an issue.=0A=0A=0A> 6) It doesn't work on my platform=0A=0ANot an= issue.=0A=0A=0A> 7) It uses camlp4=0A=0ANot an issue for me. There's this= thing called a "build system" that=0Ashould handle all that transparently,= so I couldn't care less if it=0Arequired carrier pigeons to compile my pro= grams. But yes, I admit=0Ait may be an issue for more constrained platform= s.=0A=0A=0A> 8) Other (please explain)=0A=0Aa) Lack of exposure to the adva= ntages of Batteries. It borrows lots of=0A cool ideas from Haskell, but = that may not be immediately apparent.=0A You guys should take advantage o= f the Ocaml Planet to run a publicity=0A campaign: you can make a number = of tutorial posts showing the "old"=0A way versus the Batteries way. The= re's more to Batteries than just=0A a collection of APIs, and that messag= e may not be getting through.=0A=0Ab) I'm already using Extlib extensively,= and that reduces the advantage=0A for Batteries. (Same way the Minitel = slowed down Internet adoption=0A in France in the mid-nineties?)=0A=0A=0A= Best regards,=0ADario Teixeira=0A=0A=0A=0A