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From: "Eric C. Cooper" <ecc@cmu.edu>
To: caml-list@inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 12:52:13 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3AC9FFBD.36DB8DB2@cmu.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20010403105212.A15700@pauillac.inria.fr>

I have been using OCaml for about a year, having "converted" from SML,
and have only written a few thousand lines of code in it. I have only
used labels when forced to, in order to interface to labltk and lablgtk.

The label technology is an impressive piece of work -- it seems like a
very clean extension to the core language and clearly increases the
expressive power for a certain programming style. But the examples of
this style that I have seen, namely Tk and Gtk, seem to have been forced
on us by "foreign" packages.  Would a "native" library need labels as
badly? I would hope not -- it seems that OCaml should allow much nicer
interfaces than those in C and C++, but maybe I am just being naive.

So far, I see labels not as the "Right Way", but as a necessary evil for
dealing with complex real-world APIs.  Somewhat like a network firewall
-- you need more baggage to deal with the outside, but things can be
cleaner and more lightweight in an environment you control.

I don't agree that labels are valuable simply to document interfaces. 
Choosing names for interfaces is a very important part of software
engineering, and we already have to do it for types and values.  Having
to come up with good names (labels) for function parameters makes this
harder.  Having a lot of ~f, ~x, and ~list labels doesn't add enough
clarity, IMO, to compensate for the cluttering up of every function
call.

I have also noticed a "viral" aspect to labels.  If I start using a
labelled library, it tends to "infect" the client code that I write (in
order to gracefully call (f ~arg) for example).

Finally, I don't see continuation of two modes as a bad thing. Rather,
it is evidence of a healthy language with real users.  Look at gcc, with
its "-traditional" and "-ansi" modes.

Eric Cooper
ecc@cmu.edu
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-04-03 16:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-03-31  3:40 [Caml-list] Future of labels Yaron M. Minsky
2001-04-02  3:39 ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-02  7:58   ` Judicael Courant
2001-04-02  8:50     ` Markus Mottl
2001-04-02 10:33     ` kahl
2001-04-03  0:35       ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03  1:36         ` Kipton M Barros
2001-04-03  1:52         ` Patrick M Doane
2001-04-03  3:53           ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03  5:10             ` Patrick M Doane
2001-04-03  9:30               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03  8:52             ` Xavier Leroy
2001-04-03  9:34               ` Judicael Courant
2001-04-03  9:54               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03 12:59                 ` Jean-Christophe Filliatre
2001-04-03 13:11                   ` [Caml-list] ocaml, java, rmi and jini Martin Berger
2001-04-03 19:23                     ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-03 20:50                       ` Gerd Stolpmann
2001-04-06  9:40                         ` Sven LUTHER
2001-04-06 20:57                           ` Gerd Stolpmann
2001-04-03 21:06                       ` martinb
2001-04-06 15:03                     ` Xavier Leroy
2001-04-03 14:06                   ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03 14:12                     ` Daniel de Rauglaudre
2001-04-03 14:42                       ` Claude Marche
2001-04-04 19:18                     ` Gerd Stolpmann
2001-04-03  9:55               ` Ohad Rodeh
2001-04-03 18:06                 ` [Caml-list] Example of Ocaml-syntax problem with ; Mattias Waldau
2001-04-04 15:15                 ` [Caml-list] Suspending threads Ohad Rodeh
2001-04-04 17:28                   ` Vitaly Lugovsky
2001-04-06 13:21                   ` Xavier Leroy
2001-04-03 12:02               ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling Dave Mason
2001-04-03 13:43               ` Francois-Rene Rideau
2001-04-03 14:23                 ` Daniel de Rauglaudre
2001-04-03 13:43               ` Frank Atanassow
2001-04-03 13:58               ` Joshua D. Guttman
2001-04-03 16:52               ` Eric C. Cooper [this message]
2001-04-09  9:05                 ` John Max Skaller
2001-04-09  7:29             ` John Max Skaller
2001-04-03  8:07         ` Judicael Courant
2001-04-03  6:55     ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-03 18:13       ` [Caml-list] Generics? Brian Rogoff
2001-04-03 20:12         ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-10 16:48           ` John Max Skaller
2001-04-09  8:11       ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling John Max Skaller
2001-04-09  9:21         ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-09 15:06           ` Fergus Henderson
2001-04-10 18:49           ` John Max Skaller
2001-04-09 19:54         ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-10  3:37           ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-10  7:42             ` Judicael Courant
2001-04-10  8:25               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-10  8:46               ` Claude Marche
2001-04-10 10:09                 ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-10 14:42                   ` Lionnel Maugis
2001-04-10  9:06             ` François-René Rideau
2001-04-11 15:34               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-11 17:48                 ` Dave Mason
2001-04-12 12:39                 ` [Caml-list] How do I define prog1? Mattias Waldau
2001-04-12 14:22                   ` Vitaly Lugovsky
2001-04-12 17:53                     ` William Chesters
2001-04-12 15:15                   ` Sven LUTHER
2001-04-12 16:14                     ` Mattias Waldau
2001-04-12 15:21                   ` Maxence Guesdon
2001-04-12 15:47                   ` Stefan Monnier
2001-04-17 20:04                     ` Chris Hecker
2001-04-10 22:43             ` [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling Brian Rogoff
2001-04-11  8:29               ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-11  9:44                 ` Anton Moscal
2001-04-11 13:16                 ` Didier Remy
2001-04-11 15:11                   ` Jacques Garrigue
2001-04-03  7:27 Arturo Borquez
2001-04-03 16:39 John R Harrison
2001-04-04 16:37 Dave Berry
2001-04-11 10:48 Francois-Rene Rideau
2001-04-17 11:53 Poigné

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