From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id WAA23433; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:35:55 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA24281 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:35:54 +0200 (MET DST) X-SPAM-Warning: Sending machine is listed in blackholes.five-ten-sg.com Received: from athlon.baretta.com (r-mi214-6a84.tin.it [62.211.4.84]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g67KZq927530 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:35:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from baretta.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by athlon.baretta.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815E32739C for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:42:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3D28A7AF.3010503@baretta.com> Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:42:23 +0200 From: Alessandro Baretta Organization: Baretta srl -- www.baretta.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020529 X-Accept-Language: it, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ocaml Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: generic programming References: <200207030246.WAA28665@dewberry.cc.columbia.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20020703102610.0248b280@mail.d6.com> <200207032004.QAA07689@dewberry.cc.columbia.edu> <3D235FDE.6080203@baretta.com> <3D246ABC.9010306@ozemail.com.au> <3D249B27.5080807@baretta.com> <3D25D27B.2020005@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk John Max Skaller wrote: > > [ Information about Felix ] I have read about Felix on this list several times. I will look into it when I get a chance. > Well, Ocaml has some problems too. > I sometime want to give up on it too. > For example: there is no dynamic loading, which is very serious. > I really must have that. Dynamic loading? Hmmm... What about the Dynlink library? Is that not what you are talking about? > And then, there is no intermodule recursion. That is less serious, > but it is a pain: almost all of the lookup code in Felix is forced into > a single module, and it is a very large module. I get lost in it. > [Lookup in Felix is MUCH more complex than Ocaml, due to overloading] The module system in O'Caml is overall very powerful, but it has some weak spots. I think some significant improvements could be introduced with relatively little effort. O'CamlP4 is probably the key element in my idea of "revised module system". > Heh. But I have been writing Ocaml almost exclusively for 3-4 years now. > I might be on the C++ committee .. but I don't write C++ anymore :-) Give two or three more years and I'll be at your present level. I'm trying to use only O'Caml for application software and SQL for batch data processing tasks. > Be fair though: C++ is better than plain C. > It's not all that bad, considering the C compatibility constraint. > What I learned during the process is that C is a very very bad > language, doing almost everything wrong; this becomes evident > when you try to extend it (i.e. to build C++) in a a source comatible > way. I do not consider myself an expert in either language. What I can tell you is that I once had to write a Delaunay triangulation algorithm: I tried C++ but reverted to C soon enough, when I got lost in the calling sequences of constructors and destructors--complexity was a major concern, so I switched to C because of its entirely obvious code execution path. For many other applications, where complexity is not the primary concern, where hierarchical polymorphism can be exploited--without the need for templates--C++ can certainly win over C. > Felix doesn't try. It generates C++, and makes it easy to bind to C++, > but it is a new language, with its own type system and syntax. > > http://felix.sf.net > > C++ has an excuse for being a bad language. > > Java does not. So if you're going to be annoyed at a language, > pick Java: C++ advanced industrial programming significantly. > Java has set it back at least a decade. Listen, my experience with Java is limited, but has been frustrating enough. Let me repeat my previous comment: Long live the Caml! Alex ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners