From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D971EBCAE for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:16:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pauillac.inria.fr (pauillac.inria.fr [128.93.11.35]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j6IIGJon017731 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:16:19 +0200 Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02326 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:16:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from alex.barettalocal.com (h213-255-109-130.albacom.net [213.255.109.130] (may be forged)) by concorde.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j6IIGIjV015470 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:16:18 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alex.barettalocal.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 068C62BAA98; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:14:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <42DBF189.1010802@barettadeit.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:14:33 +0200 From: Alex Baretta User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050331) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Kirk Cc: Ocaml Subject: Re: [Caml-list] (Mostly) Functional Design? References: <9cc3782b05071411004b27b6a4@mail.gmail.com> <42DB6161.4030507@cs.utah.edu> <006801c58ba4$0b7bfe60$322cf8c1@oemcomputer> <42DBCA16.3000002@barettadeit.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Miltered: at nez-perce with ID 42DBF1F3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 42DBF1F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.00; baretta:01 caml-list:01 ocaml:01 ocaml:01 baretta:01 incite:98 ...:98 creativity:98 ...:98 mouths:98 wrote:01 digest:01 patterns:02 patterns:02 hacker:02 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=disabled version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: Doug Kirk wrote: Le me quote your message starting with the disclaimer: > > All of the preceding is simply my opinion based upon my own > observations and experience. It is not intended to incite controversy. > I don't think your message incites controversy. It is a thoughtful apology of the metapattern of devising, documenting and teaching canonical solutions to canonical problems. I recognize that this is actually one of the fundamental ideas in Engineering as a whole. > > In the OO world, it is common now to speak of a design as an > application of one or more of the patterns; ... This I would not like. Design is an eminently "artistic" activity: it takes creativity. Applying patterns is a parrot's work. One my main reasons for liking Ocaml is that the "general coding strategies" that apply are do not produce the vast majority of my locs, but are usually localizeable in a small bunch of lines in a module. This means that me job is that of the artist, not that of the parrot. This makes me feel a little less miserable for being a hacker ;) > Having a resource such as that *is* a valuable tool that enables > novices to raise their level of thinking, and even more so, > understanding, of the environment in which they are operating. (The > danger of having the resource without experience is pointed out in the > rant above...it may be easy for novices to see it as the entire toolbox.) It usually takes me a few minutes to explain a single "design strategy" to a collegue. It takes a few more minutes to show an example. It might take anywhere between a few minutes to the rest of his/her lifetime to digest the idea. I wonder if this situation would improve, given adequate literature and documentation. > For myself, I've been lurking on this list for awhile, and trying to > learn FP practices using Ocaml. Since I have 3 mouths to feed ... Me too! ;) > I must > spend most of my time doing work that clients are willing to pay > for...the last 9 years that means Java. The problem is not so much the lack of documentation, but the lack of customers. The year of our lord 2005 is a very sad year for the IT business, at least in Italy. Alex -- ********************************************************************* http://www.barettadeit.com/ Baretta DE&IT A division of Baretta SRL tel. +39 02 370 111 55 fax. +39 02 370 111 54 Our technology: The Application System/Xcaml (AS/Xcaml) The FreerP Project