From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 798B87FE36 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:13:57 +0200 (CEST) IronPort-PHdr: 9a23:edQ+iRMabbeoHmtQb00l6mtUPXoX/o7sNwtQ0KIMzox0KPn6rarrMEGX3/hxlliBBdydsKMczbGK+PG/EUU7or+5+EgYd5JNUxJXwe43pCcHRPC/NEvgMfTxZDY7FskRHHVs/nW8LFQHUJ2mPw6anHS+4HYoFwnlMkItf6KuS9aU1Jj8hr/60qaQSj0AvCC6b7J2IUf+hiTqne5Sv7FfLL0swADCuHpCdrce72ppIVWOg0S0vZ/or9ZLuh5dsPM59sNGTb6yP+FhFeQZX3waNDU+7cjv8B3CVhen530GU2xQnAAbLRLC6UTVWpr3hQ57qOd5kH2VOcDwC7U5Rzmmx6xxQRnzziAdOGhqoynslsVsgfcD81qarBtlztuROdnNOQ== Authentication-Results: mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; spf=None smtp.pra=glen.mevel@crans.org; spf=Pass smtp.mailfrom=glen.mevel@crans.org; spf=Pass smtp.helo=postmaster@redisdead.crans.org Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of glen.mevel@crans.org) identity=pra; client-ip=138.231.136.39; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="glen.mevel@crans.org"; x-sender="glen.mevel@crans.org"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of glen.mevel@crans.org designates 138.231.136.39 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=138.231.136.39; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="glen.mevel@crans.org"; x-sender="glen.mevel@crans.org"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of postmaster@redisdead.crans.org designates 138.231.136.39 as permitted sender) identity=helo; client-ip=138.231.136.39; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="glen.mevel@crans.org"; x-sender="postmaster@redisdead.crans.org"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CcCAC2coJXYCeI54pdgz6BAFK5F4F6hhgCgR85EwEBAQEBAQEBBRkLCwciLoIyBAESAYITAQQBIx0BASoCCwEECwkCLQ4HAgJXEwgBARAHiA0IBAGSOJw2Z4RDAQEFihIBAQEHAQEBARUGCIgfglWEEgERAVuCQoJamR2DM4FsiTOJTYVfkA8gAYJvgTdshzuBNQEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0CcCAC2coJXYCeI54pdgz6BAFK5F4F6hhgCgR85EwEBAQEBAQEBBRkLCwciLoIyBAESAYITAQQBIx0BASoCCwEECwkCLQ4HAgJXEwgBARAHiA0IBAGSOJw2Z4RDAQEFihIBAQEHAQEBARUGCIgfglWEEgERAVuCQoJamR2DM4FsiTOJTYVfkA8gAYJvgTdshzuBNQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,340,1464645600"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="184427266" Received: from redisdead.crans.org ([138.231.136.39]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2016 18:13:56 +0200 Received: from [192.168.1.9] (81-224-186-244-no2000.tbcn.telia.com [81.224.186.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by redisdead.crans.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BA776717; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:13:55 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=crans.org; s=mail; t=1468167235; bh=N5muPjchpphV/QjvyqQ/okF6BPZCj92f5u9Or2gMOSI=; h=Subject:References:From:Cc:To:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=CdnNj4DxqjURoMazPBQqIDJ8OMsMP9t2Wu+l8nzKD0iBzBI/PccqofXuhDhnFRgeY a7uGZxhJo2AoyfUtEhgRzJWqK1NWhFU55eFncXEaKviMquthyXl++E3af4WxLoG0gp 2fJb24N8gA0t/C3HPAaFi6DbXg/eVT4RJOBs5rT9SCBx9w/kJCwCua/7K95qDV8/+V Ws2R6lY2q4T4SfrKRxi6mvjoRsE/EV4Z0USq+I1qp5qs1O9k65Lkq/he3F5A5GtYss vBxrSUohM0U60wEBcPPhzkLhWjdWg+grAutscpWJYg6Bp1S2jtPY6P3rDjzF6/NmBg 8CULqvI/NxSYzwnvBehuQ/wHQFgWk2dUbfW3EuLw6rfHIo65vuSkaznDzqDRuaUoC2 g7RDNkkw/yBhktRjz7+mUgdKfmtPNaFaQ2k57wPSwiiLm7IRzCyxQYdr7YTgkxsLjX czNGEVpDpaGKdMHo2hVaOhhfuXO1vHRNqKKlGzmglR3y7tyG16KQR3kHWpzvlrmn8E wzIcZTkhGi8UqX8SosyneD8YZzSjbc6EX9lTBknHNvED/iynYSLriqAP5f8wvl0zQP ynrl0nR6vLsyE0wF/G+7cPgCh6Rx5cwBXgx62cwuPreOf8PDtLJWT+rdXgoASgJaSH eT46u/t3h2VQH2rM2/cferws= References: <9445A645-1A01-4B74-8DB4-03C911DE3A06@mpi-sws.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Glen_M=c3=a9vel?= X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Cc: Andreas Rossberg To: caml-list@inria.fr Message-ID: <46ff9104-48ea-3fc7-da37-d3a1c6d147bc@crans.org> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:10:27 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9445A645-1A01-4B74-8DB4-03C911DE3A06@mpi-sws.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rsxMfFWCjiF0RVMmJpkGL0P12cWSUQXvv" Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Discourse instance for the OCaml community? (was: how to encourage adoption of OCaml?) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --rsxMfFWCjiF0RVMmJpkGL0P12cWSUQXvv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andreas Rossberg a =C3=A9crit (le 10/07/2016 =C3=A0 09:21) : > To paraphrase Dijkstra, IMHO email and mailing lists are an > improvement over more =E2=80=9Cmodern=E2=80=9D forums in almost every way= , once you > get past the =E2=80=9Cflashiness=E2=80=9D thing: > > - participation without having to constantly log into yet another > account (with potential tracking), > - all communication through the same tool/UI (that actually works), > easy cross-communication and cross-quoting, archiving in one place, > etc > - offline reading & writing, > - proper threading (Discourse sees its lack as a =E2=80=9Cfeature"), > - no annoying gamification, > - open, standardised and guaranteed to still be around in 5 or 10 > years from now. i fully agree with all this. however, there is one single feature that i miss with email and newsgroup: the ability to edit a message after it was sent. sadly, by the nature of those protocols this can=E2=80=99t be fix= ed, and to me this is the single stuff that makes the web=E2=80=902.0=E2=80=90b= ased solutions (forums and the like) unavoidable. [ other missing features, available in more recent technologies, are either superfluous (avatars?), or tied to contents (redaction in a Markdown=E2=80=90like forma= t, syntax highlighting=E2=80=A6), thus can be circumvented. ] moreover, i second Anthony & others in saying that the mailing=E2=80=90list format somehow refrains people from participating. it may be good for the essential discussions, but otherwise limits beginner questions and general community exchanges. plus the current mailing lists lack visiblity, as pointed out before. for these reasons i believe too that a forum=E2=80=90like solution may prove valuable. it may allow discussions to grow freely, and as a side=E2=80=90ef= fect would increase the visibility of the community. to that purpose, Discourse may be the less bad solution, for it =E2=80=94 being open=E2=80=90source, =E2=80=94 being well=E2=80=90known, by which i mean that: (1) it is a modern, trendy solution that would refresh the image of the community as depicted by Duane, and may attract newcomers, [*] (2) the interface would look familiar, =E2=80=94 gaining from a wider adoption more potential for becoming a standard in lieu of the wild forum solutions, as a successor for, say, newsgroups. =E2=80=94 plus i see on its homepage than it can use OpenID, which partially addresses your point about logging in (not the tracking issue, though=E2=80=A6). the drawback is, as you pointed out, the absence of interoperability with external clients and protocols (run a browser+JS or die). however, as it is open=E2=80=90source, it should be possible to ask for improvement = of at least the email gateway =E2=80=94=E2=80=AFeven if a good email gateway stil= l wouldn=E2=80=99t be satisfying from that perspective. also note that Discourse apparently is a mailing=E2=80=90list manager too, so we may conveniently mirror this list= in our new forum; this would help avoiding community fragmentation as you fear it. --=20 Glen M=C3=A9vel [*]: well, you should ask a more hype-sensitive person on that point. --rsxMfFWCjiF0RVMmJpkGL0P12cWSUQXvv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEbBAEBCAAGBQJXgnN4AAoJELcUS75k9bO31xQH+OFU4ws31Tr6KB9eg6ZL+vpX C6Gnfh1OJHS65r6p1avCQje5GokS9IZ36gCGdmt0nDJiTyMkZISvNRhbG58wERHx f7tXFvJPsNbWBnYpQM10MTx4OaSaLsceLGQMWHkJhm3r8RxHFkm6yrd70UwW9eJG HCxRqg6RdMKL4ez4xbhHFWtbTknwb5e15L35/bXi4vtQhMeuUd6Ly3ShUjJby0NZ +DLHRg+32Ppz8n5+hH545lPpAkZ6USZBeqi4ZntyNkn9378bGr2BFzV8mzwYFL/R zipx2AZPUo+Yzj0WiV2LecPY5LKnCpXJMaHR5wnsGZeY8Gq1eQsNphcXzQ2Dpg== =Ui0z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rsxMfFWCjiF0RVMmJpkGL0P12cWSUQXvv--