From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B30D4BC69 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 22:03:38 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAEzkBEfPcoGtVGdsb2JhbACBWYxVAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,232,1188770400"; d="scan'208";a="3765630" Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 04 Oct 2007 22:03:38 +0200 Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l94K3bwV023656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 22:03:38 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAEzkBEfPcoGtVGdsb2JhbACBWYxVAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,232,1188770400"; d="scan'208";a="3765627" Received: from 207-114-129-173.static.twtelecom.net (HELO mail.spacemicro.com) ([207.114.129.173]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 04 Oct 2007 22:03:36 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.spacemicro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7018D2684FC; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.spacemicro.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.spacemicro.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10305-14; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from columbia.spacemicro.com (columbia.spacemicro.com [192.168.1.82]) by mail.spacemicro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2C82684FB; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <470546BF.6020006@nc-sys.com> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:02:07 -0700 From: Ken Rose User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (X11/20070719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: skaller Cc: caml-list@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Unsoundness is essential References: <20071003083529.40DA2A99F@Adric.metnet.fnmoc.navy.mil> <4703FDEF.7030900@univ-savoie.fr> <1191451810.7218.86.camel@rosella.wigram> <1191462724.7542.76.camel@rosella.wigram> <47049A6D.6020201@univ-savoie.fr> <4704AAA8.9080602@lix.polytechnique.fr> <470500F9.1080301@fmf.uni-lj.si> <1191513834.6518.156.camel@rosella.wigram> In-Reply-To: <1191513834.6518.156.camel@rosella.wigram> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.spacemicro.com X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 47054719.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail . ensmp . fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.00; compiler:01 assertions:01 assertions:01 wrote:01 wrote:01 caml-list:01 proofs:01 writes:01 output:02 seems:03 size:95 consequence:04 probably:07 programmer:07 encoded:09 skaller wrote: > It seems a consequence of this manifesto is that the asserting > of the assertions, if not their proofs, need to be encoded > into the program in an effort to reduce the size of the output > list. > > A difficulty here is saying the assertions in a comprehensible > way which is well coupled to the original code. As you said > previously, this probably requires an interactive system. > > I think that in an industrial system, the assertions are going to have to travel with the code. I can't imagine that a system that needs a particular, highly trained programmer (the one who wrote the thing) to cajole the compiler into generating code will ever be satisfactory to any business that writes code. - ken