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From: "Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB)" <ulf.wiger@ericsson.com>
To: Jon Harrop <jon@ffconsultancy.com>
Cc: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml sucks
Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 20:17:30 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4824953A.4000207@ericsson.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200805091846.32238.jon@ffconsultancy.com>

Jon Harrop skrev:
> On Friday 09 May 2008 14:00:52 you wrote:
>> Jon Harrop skrev:
>>> . Parallelism is for performance and performance
>>>
>>  >   requires mutable data structures.
>>
>> I disagree. SMP Erlang has no mutable data structures,
>> but achieves very good scalability anyway.
> 
> Scalability != performance. For CPU intensive tasks, 
 > Erlang is uniformly slow.

I don't see how you can say that. If you introduce the
restriction that there can be only one CPU, then this
might be true. Some applications are very difficult to
scale to multiple CPUs, but others are inherently
scalable. For some problems, mutable data structures
make all the difference, and in others, they just make
a mess of things.

If you say "parallelism is for performance", you imply
that the program is scalable, and that it actually makes
a difference to add more CPUs. In this case, mutable
the presence of data structures will make scaling more
difficult. Most problems involved in utilizing multicore
boil down to the widespread use of mutable data structures.

If the problem isn't scalable, then other tricks are needed
to achieve performance, and mutable data structures may
be indispensable.

BR,
Ulf W


  reply	other threads:[~2008-05-09 18:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-05-09  0:39 Jon Harrop
2008-05-09  1:11 ` [Caml-list] " Matthew William Cox
2008-05-09  5:10   ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml **cks Jon Harrop
2008-05-09  4:45 ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml sucks Arthur Chan
2008-05-09  5:09   ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-09 11:12     ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml rocks Gerd Stolpmann
2008-05-09 11:58       ` Gabriel Kerneis
2008-05-09 12:10         ` Concurrency [was Re: [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml rocks] Robert Fischer
2008-05-09 12:41         ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml rocks Gerd Stolpmann
2008-05-09 12:49         ` David Teller
2008-05-09 18:10       ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-09 20:40         ` Gerd Stolpmann
2008-05-09 20:55           ` Berke Durak
2008-05-10 10:56             ` Gerd Stolpmann
2008-05-09 21:00           ` Till Varoquaux
2008-05-09 21:13             ` Berke Durak
2008-05-09 22:26               ` Richard Jones
2008-05-09 23:01                 ` Berke Durak
2008-05-10  7:52                   ` Richard Jones
2008-05-10  8:24                     ` Berke Durak
2008-05-10  8:51                       ` Richard Jones
2008-05-13  3:47           ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-09 22:25         ` David Teller
2008-05-09 22:57           ` Vincent Hanquez
2008-05-10 19:59           ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-10 21:39             ` Charles Forsyth
2008-05-11  3:58               ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-11  9:41                 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-05-12 13:22             ` Richard Jones
2008-05-12 18:07               ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-12 20:05                 ` Arthur Chan
2008-05-13  0:42               ` Gerd Stolpmann
2008-05-13  1:19                 ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-13  2:03                   ` Gerd Stolpmann
2008-05-13  3:13                     ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-12 20:33             ` Arthur Chan
2008-05-12 21:22               ` Till Varoquaux
2008-05-09 13:00     ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml sucks Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB)
2008-05-09 17:46       ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-09 18:17         ` Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB) [this message]
2008-05-10  1:29           ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-10 14:51             ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml **cks Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB)
2008-05-10 18:19               ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-10 21:58                 ` Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB)
2008-05-10 18:39               ` Mike Lin
2008-05-12 13:31           ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml sucks Kuba Ober
2008-05-12 18:18             ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-12 13:13   ` Kuba Ober
2008-05-12 19:32     ` Arthur Chan
2008-05-09  6:31 ` Tom Primožič
2008-05-09  6:46 ` Elliott Oti
2008-05-09  7:53   ` Till Varoquaux
2008-05-09  7:45 ` Richard Jones
2008-05-09  8:10   ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-09  9:31     ` Richard Jones
2008-05-09  7:58 ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml rocks David Teller
2008-05-09 10:29   ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-09 13:08     ` David Teller
2008-05-09 15:38     ` Jeff Polakow
2008-05-09 18:09       ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-09 20:36         ` Berke Durak
2008-05-09 22:34         ` Richard Jones
2008-05-14 13:44           ` Kuba Ober
2008-05-09  8:29 ` constructive criticism about Ocaml Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB)
2008-05-09  9:45 ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml sucks Vincent Hanquez
2008-05-09 10:23   ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml **cks Jon Harrop
2008-05-09 22:01     ` Vincent Hanquez
2008-05-09 22:23       ` David Teller
2008-05-10  8:36       ` Christophe TROESTLER
2008-05-10  9:18         ` Vincent Hanquez
2008-05-09 11:37   ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml sucks Ralph Douglass
2008-05-09 13:02     ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml rocks David Teller
2008-05-09 12:33 ` not all functional languages lack parallelism Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB)
2008-05-09 18:10   ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-09 20:26     ` Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB)
2008-05-12 12:54 ` [Caml-list] Re: Why OCaml sucks Kuba Ober
2008-05-12 14:16   ` Jon Harrop
2008-05-13 13:33     ` Kuba Ober
2008-05-13 13:49       ` Robert Fischer
2008-05-13 14:01         ` Brian Hurt
2008-05-13 14:13           ` Robert Fischer
2008-05-13 15:18             ` Berke Durak
2008-05-14  4:40             ` Kuba Ober
2008-05-13 14:25           ` Gerd Stolpmann
2008-05-14  4:29           ` Kuba Ober
2008-05-12 13:01 ` Kuba Ober
2008-05-12 19:18   ` Arthur Chan
2008-05-12 19:41     ` Karl Zilles
2008-05-13 13:17     ` Kuba Ober

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