From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB36BBC4 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 22:12:38 +0100 (CET) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiUCAGjPr0mgISwpmWdsb2JhbACVAQEBAQEBCAsKBxGzNQmPPIJXgTEG X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,308,1233529200"; d="scan'208";a="25140448" Received: from unknown (HELO ironport01a.scea.com) ([160.33.44.41]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 05 Mar 2009 22:12:37 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,308,1233561600"; d="scan'208";a="7577102" Received: from inbetweener02.scea.com ([160.33.45.196]) by ironport01a.scea.com with ESMTP; 05 Mar 2009 13:12:31 -0800 Received: from postal1-dog.naughtydog.com (intmail.naughtydog.com [10.15.0.14]) by inbetweener02.scea.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80A2FB831C; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([150.0.6.116]) by postal1-dog.naughtydog.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:11:16 -0800 Message-ID: <49B03FBA.3070100@naughtydog.com> Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 13:10:18 -0800 From: Pal-Kristian Engstad User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: yoann padioleau Cc: Jon Harrop , "caml-list@yquem.inria.fr" Subject: Re: [Caml-list] stl? References: <91a2ba3e0903031340wcdc976cp52522eb35f7ccb73@mail.gmail.com> <200903050131.03494.jon@ffconsultancy.com> <49AF35B8.9030104@naughtydog.com> <200903050326.57931.jon@ffconsultancy.com> <5001040.203359.1236234148184.JavaMail.www@wwinf2209> In-Reply-To: <5001040.203359.1236234148184.JavaMail.www@wwinf2209> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2009 21:11:16.0103 (UTC) FILETIME=[EBC72970:01C99DD6] X-Spam: no; 0.00; stl:01 haskell:01 struct:01 bitfields:01 marshalling:01 low-level:01 pke:01 emacs:01 dog:98 dog:98 13.:98 wrote:01 caml-list:01 imperative:01 surprising:01 yoann padioleau wrote: > Come on, can you stop all those stuff about LLVM. The guy works in a game company > with people knowing C/C++ for decades, with quite a lot of legacy code I guess, and you > arrive with your "hey you should use LLVM" that almost nobody knows about. > Not to defend Jon too much publicly ;-), but LLVM is a serious piece of software that deserves a lot of attention. Trust me, we do keep an eye out for exciting emerging technologies. > Oh, and by the way, in which programming language is written LLVM ? :) > LLVM has already a surprising amount of language support. You should check it out. Another interesting project related to LLVM is Clang. > Valgrind is written in C (and julien seward, its author knows very well > Haskell), Qemu is written in C, because I guess indeed C struct and union > and bitfields makes it easy to match directly to the hardware (no marshalling, > there is direct mapping). > LLVM is very low-level and perfectly capable of handling these things. > So what you propose to his company is to switch from C++ to HLVM ? :) That might not be feasible due to some non-technical concerns, but I wouldn't say that it is completely out of the question. During the PlayStation 2 era, Naughty Dog used its own proprietary language called Goal - an imperative variant of Scheme. We very much understand that lack of programmer productivity is a major cost, perhaps /the/ biggest, for game production. Therefore, anything that helps in this regard is of huge interest. Thanks, PKE. -- Pål-Kristian Engstad (engstad@naughtydog.com), Lead Graphics & Engine Programmer, Naughty Dog, Inc., 1601 Cloverfield Blvd, 6000 North, Santa Monica, CA 90404, USA. Ph.: (310) 633-9112. "Emacs would be a far better OS if it was shipped with a halfway-decent text editor." -- Slashdot, Dec 13. 2005.