From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_NEUTRAL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671B6BBAF for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:10:51 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnEBAK8TqkqBWB4RmWdsb2JhbACbRAEBAQEBCAsKBxPBd4QYBQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,371,1249250400"; d="scan'208";a="32615539" Received: from mx2.imag.fr (HELO rominette.imag.fr) ([129.88.30.17]) by mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 11 Sep 2009 18:10:51 +0200 Received: from saone.imag.fr (saone.imag.fr [147.171.129.50]) by rominette.imag.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8BG8Cos026139 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:08:13 +0200 Received: from [147.171.140.31] (diamante.imag.fr [147.171.140.31]) by saone.imag.fr (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ImagV2.1.pm) with ESMTP id n8BG8nKH003137 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:08:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4AAA75CC.5010901@imag.fr> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:07:40 +0200 From: Florent Ouchet Reply-To: florent.ouchet@imag.fr Organization: Tima/CIS User-Agent: IceDove 1.5.0.14eol (X11/20080509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Why don't you use batteries? References: <4A9FBF04.1060608@gmail.com> <20090904105505.055ec82e@attale.agematis.loc> <4AA0DEB4.6020307@glondu.net> <7d8707de0909040326x37d455cdi9f480b2b5da96b20@mail.gmail.com> <20090904141008.GC22690@annexia.org> In-Reply-To: <20090904141008.GC22690@annexia.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (rominette.imag.fr [129.88.30.17]); Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:08:13 +0200 (CEST) X-IMAG-MailScanner-Information: Please contact MI2S MIM for more information X-MailScanner-ID: n8BG8Cos026139 X-IMAG-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-IMAG-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-IMAG-MailScanner-From: florent.ouchet@imag.fr MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1253290094.31251@6WqlnfAm3N1w/0amw6I5Vw X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 ocaml:01 tarballs:01 tarballs:01 packagers:01 dependencies:01 dependencies:01 compilation:01 customized:98 correlated:98 unix:01 unix:01 caml-list:01 inherit:01 inherit:01 Richard Jones a écrit : > Give them a live CD. > > There are various online projects where you can create live CDs with a > custom set of packages via a webpage.[1] > > A live CD is actually better than relying on them trying to install > something under Windows, because you're guaranteeing a consistent > environment. And you can provide them with customized bits too (like > the coursework!) > > If you provide the live CD as both a physical CD and a downloadable > ISO, they can even run it virtualized so they don't need to reboot. > > Rich. > Hi all, Yet an other Friday :) IMO, all this discussion is implicitely correlated to the lack of easy packaging for OCaml applications. Many projects aim at developers and only developers (there are some relevant quotes in this thread) but they forget that developers inherit from advanced users who inherit from basic users. Sometimes (often) developers do not want to waste their time on things that do not work out-of-the-click-the-button. You should not forget that many Windows developers are basic users and that software virtualization is still rocket science. The release of VM appliances require users to have some VM software on their system, not every developer has one yet. The OCaml world is heavily based on the Unix/Linux community and the Windows world is really different. Many OCaml projects used to release source tarballs and only source tarballs. They rely on third-party packagers to build precompiled things for binary Linux/Windows... etc... That's definitively an approach that is not compatible with most Windows' users. Basic users that want WinZip go to www.winzip.com (or download.com) and not to www.my-packager.com/packages/winzip. In the Windows world, you need a single installer that does everything for you: 1) it should check the environment consistency; 2) it should silently install all required dependencies; 3) it should publish the project location in the registry (configuration files should definitively be banned); These 3 points have nested dependencies: the installer checks the environment consistency (1) by listing the availability of all the dependencies (3). If a dependency is missing (2), its package is silently downloaded and silently installed ("setup.exe /silent" is quite common). This nested installation checks for consistency and dependencies etc... For instance, the OCaml binary files for Windows that are available at caml.inria.fr lack (2) and (3) (at least). All this installation process is possible as soon as some kind of unified OCaml packaging is available and as soon as most projects use it. This unified OCaml packaging should not be limited to binary distribution and we can imagine a silent compilation at user's side. Furthermore, the historical Linux/Unix community will take benefit of this simplified process which is something like a distributed godi where each OCaml project provides compatible installation files. My $0.02, - Florent