From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.105]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C461BC57 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:59:07 +0100 (CET) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsGAJt+50xQDPIaYGdsb2JhbACUMYYpAYgKCxcLCAYUAx+7A4VLBIRaiRI X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.59,229,1288566000"; d="scan'208,217";a="79708474" Received: from smtp20.orange.fr ([80.12.242.26]) by mail4-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 20 Nov 2010 16:59:06 +0100 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf2018.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3AC3520000A5; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:59:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf2018.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 2B73C20000A8; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:59:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.1.114] (c-67-188-213-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.188.213.250]) by mwinf2018.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1617220000A5; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:59:04 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20101120155905906.1617220000A5@mwinf2018.orange.fr X-ME-User-Auth: padator@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] OCamlJit 2.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-576414330 From: Yoann Padioleau In-Reply-To: <87247923-BF98-49A2-9334-2A4081DD07FD@googlemail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 07:59:03 -0800 Cc: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Message-Id: <4E5CD9AC-C0D7-4BBB-BDCA-5E54353F041C@wanadoo.fr> References: <87247923-BF98-49A2-9334-2A4081DD07FD@googlemail.com> To: Benedikt Meurer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Spam: no; 0.00; computations:01 speedup:01 speedups:01 runtime:01 compiler:01 compilation:01 compiler:01 inference:01 statically:01 beginner's:01 ocaml:01 bug:01 computations:01 speedup:01 speedups:01 --Apple-Mail-1-576414330 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Nov 19, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Benedikt Meurer wrote: >=20 > Well, it is a research project, and it was driven by actual demand. A = JIT engine for PHP is something less interesting from a university point = of view, unless there are companies willing to sponsor/help the = development. >=20 > But from my personal experience, there is not really a lot to gain = w.r.t. PHP. Delivering website content does not involve complex = computations or processing, it is mostly I/O bound, depending on a fast = database engine, a fast webserver, decent text processing throughput, = etc. I may be wrong here, I think you are. As said by someone previously facebook got a 2x speedup = on CPU by optimizing PHP. Websites are not just getting something from a database and echoing it. > but I doubt that you'd see relevant speedups on large websites by = simply JITting the PHP code. >=20 > Also PHP code is less likely to change at runtime, so there's no real = need to acutally JIT compile it. You could use a lot simpler techniques = here to improve performance. For example, just write a simple PHP to C = compiler, compiling your PHP code to native code via C, and let the = webserver run the native code instead. With some clever compilation = scheme, this should outperform any JIT engine, with a lot less effort. I think it may actually be more effort to do an efficient compiler than = a JIT on languages like PHP For instance the team behind the Druby project ( = http://www.cs.umd.edu/projects/PL/druby/publications.html ) first tried to do some static type inference on ruby code but then = switched to a dynamic approach because it was too hard to infer statically. >=20 > Anyway, this seems to be off-topic here... Sure >=20 > Benedikt > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs --Apple-Mail-1-576414330 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Well, it is a research project, and it was = driven by actual demand. A JIT engine for PHP is something less = interesting from a university point of view, unless there are companies = willing to sponsor/help the development.

But from my personal = experience, there is not really a lot to gain w.r.t. PHP. Delivering = website content does not involve complex computations or processing, it = is mostly I/O bound, depending on a fast database engine, a fast = webserver, decent text processing throughput, etc. I may be wrong = here,

I think you are. As said by = someone previously facebook got a 2x speedup on CPU by optimizing PHP. = Websites are not just
getting something from a database and = echoing it.

but I doubt that = you'd see relevant speedups on large websites by simply JITting the PHP = code.

Also PHP code is less likely to change at runtime, so = there's no real need to acutally JIT compile it. You could use a lot = simpler techniques here to improve performance. For example, just write = a simple PHP to C compiler, compiling your PHP code to native code via = C, and let the webserver run the native code instead. With some clever = compilation scheme, this should outperform any JIT engine, with a lot = less effort.

I think it may = actually be more effort to do an efficient compiler than a JIT on = languages like PHP
For instance the team behind the Druby project = ( http://= www.cs.umd.edu/projects/PL/druby/publications.html )
first = tried to do some static type inference on ruby code but then switched to = a dynamic approach
because it was too hard to infer = statically.


Anyway, = this seems to be off-topic = here...

Sure


Benedikt
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Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management:
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Archives: = http://caml.inria.fr
Beginner's list: = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
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