From: "Christopher L Conway" <cconway@cs.nyu.edu>
To: "Andrej Bauer" <Andrej.Bauer@fmf.uni-lj.si>
Cc: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Formal specifications of programming languages
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:44 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4a051d930802131027o6459e7e7i6d35d4eb6e186eea@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <47B33548.1010001@fmf.uni-lj.si>
But, Andrej, we don't even have an *informal* semantics. :-( You've
got to walk before you run.
Chris
On Feb 13, 2008 1:22 PM, Andrej Bauer <Andrej.Bauer@fmf.uni-lj.si> wrote:
> I see people have opinions about formal semantics.
>
> Having formal semantics for a programming language is a valuable thing,
> even if most people do not understand it. Such semantics is a piece of
> mathematics that removes (hopefully) every doubt as to what we are
> talking about, and has other benefits as well. High priests can then
> write sermons in common language and explain the meaning of the Holy Word.
>
> It would probably be quite hard to provide formal semantics for complete
> ocaml, for several reasons, such as sheer size, C interface, and the
> fact that it is a moving target.
>
> But what is formal semantics good for?
>
> Complete formal semantics written with a tool such as Coq, together with
> formal proofs of its properties (existence of principal types,
> uniqueness of typing, type preservation, progress lemma) is good for
> automatic extraction of a prototype type-checker and/or interpreter.
> This can be extremely valuable for PL researchers who want to experiment
> with new features.
>
> Incomplete formal semantics written in a series of papers and
> dissertations is still quite useful. It allows researchers to clearly
> express and communicate ideas. Once a person learns how to read the
> mathematics that may greatly help his or her understanding of corner
> cases and peculiar examples.
>
> We (researchers) should encourage "ordinary programmers" to read formal
> semantics by writing manuals and textbooks that incorporate the
> formalism and decorate it with sufficient explanation.
>
> Think about the fact that specifying concrete syntax in BNF-like
> formalism has become the norm. Programmers happily read it and the
> benefits are obvious. Nobody suggests that syntax should be explained in
> English prose because BNF is too hard to understand. So why are you
> suggesting that the norm for describing other pieces of a programming
> language, such as typing rules and operational semantics, should be
> primarily (or only) English prose?
>
> Andrej
>
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>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-02-13 18:27 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 9+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-02-13 18:22 Andrej Bauer
2008-02-13 18:27 ` Christopher L Conway [this message]
2008-02-13 19:45 ` [Caml-list] " Andrej Bauer
2008-02-14 9:00 ` Jacques Garrigue
2008-02-14 9:08 ` Xavier Leroy
2008-02-15 14:30 ` Christopher L Conway
2008-02-18 10:05 ` Jacques Garrigue
2008-02-18 16:44 ` Jacques Carette
2008-02-18 21:52 ` Christophe Raffalli
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