Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Simon Cruanes <simon.cruanes.2007@m4x.org>]

Wouldn't promoting the use of an extended standard library, like
Batteries or Core, in addition to a friendly toplevel such as utop help
making the language nicer to beginners? Opam makes it easier to use
them; the biggest source of complexity from there is imho how to build
programs (which build system to chose, how to have it use the libraries
with findlib, etc.).

All this is very easy and natural in python: the standard library is
big, you can write programs with networking, http, serialization,
databases very easily, there is no build system (nor 'annoying' typing
that prevents from writing `1 + 2.0 < 3L`). Ipython can also be used for
the 'nice toplevel' part. This is also partly true for universities that
use Java, since IDEs like eclipse provide autocompletion and hide the
build system away... Even `ghc --make` and ghci are much easier than
ocamlbuild and ocaml's toplevel (which doesn't even have readline).

So I think this explains the high threshold for starting with OCaml.

Simon

On 03/18/2013 03:00 PM, Yaron Minsky wrote:
> I know of few places in the US that teach Haskell in the intro
> sequence.  The main concern, I think, is that teaching imperative
> programming in Haskell requires too much sophistication.
> 
> That said, I think there are a decent number of places in Europe that
> do teach Haskell in the intro sequence, so YMMV.
> 
> My sense is that in the US, ML has quite a good spot relative to other
> languages when it comes to University teaching.  The primary languages
> people teach with in elite US institutions are, I think:
> 
> - Java
> - Python
> - C
> - OCaml/SML
> - Scheme
> 
> With Java and Python having the lion's share.  C and OCaml/SML are
> most often taught as part of the "advanced" intro class.
> 
> I think this is a real opportunity for OCaml.  If we can make OCaml
> much easier to use for newbies who want to do something outside of
> class, I think it's a real chance to reach a wider audience.  OPAM
> gets us a chunk of the way, but there's more work to do beyond that.
> 
> y
> 
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Lukasz Stafiniak <lukstafi@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Evolution isn't about how much you achieve but about how well you compete.
>> How do we stand in relation to Haskell in education? Or is your worry solely
>> about giving ground to Python?
>>
>