[Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Malcolm Matalka]

Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm wondering if
it's the same this year?

/Malcolm

Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Anil Madhavapeddy]

On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com> wrote:

> Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm wondering if
> it's the same this year?
> 

Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't gone yet out.

-Anil

AW: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Gerd Stolpmann]

Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm wondering  
> if
> > it's the same this year?
> >
> 
> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being  
> chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't  
> gone yet out.

Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the first  
couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic rituals.

Gerd


> -Anil
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Anil Madhavapeddy]

On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> wrote:

> Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm wondering if
>> > it's the same this year?
>> >
>> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't gone yet out.
> 
> Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic rituals.

Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people, reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors, organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and uploading them online.  ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that for us (Sylvain did a big job before).

Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me.  I like attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML, Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the community.

The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend, instead of just European ones.  The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community.  ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to arrange with a single user group.

Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive thing. Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here: http://ocaml.org/meetings.html
Do get involved and set up your own.

-anil

AW: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Gerd Stolpmann]

Sorry Anil,

I did meant to criticize people who put a lot of work into organizing  
events. On the contrary, this is highly welcome.

My point is rather that you get a certain audience when an event is  
organized as an addendum to a large academic conference. You don't get  
the average programmer, but people with a strong academic background.  
Or more direct: OUD is then just a side program for people who attend  
ICFP anyway.

Am 03.04.2013 15:41:47 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
> On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> >> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm  
> wondering if
> >> > it's the same this year?
> >> >
> >> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being  
> chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't  
> gone yet out.
> >
> > Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the  
> first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic  
> rituals.
> 
> Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people,  
> reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors,  
> organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and  
> uploading them online.  ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that for  
> us (Sylvain did a big job before).

This is not meant with "rituals". The ritual is to visit ICFP every  
year. The ritual is to publish a paper every year and to bore the  
audience, as it happens often enough. This is acceptable as being part  
of science, but I just have some doubts whether this is the right  
environment for a users' meeting, especially if you also want to  
address users outside universities and research institutes.

> Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me.  I like  
> attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML,  
> Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks  
> from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and  
> wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the community.

As an "industrial" user I am very interested into spreading out the  
word to the masses. We have difficulties finding programmers, which is  
no wonder if nobody (on the street) has ever heard of the language.  
What we need are not further talks at scientific conferences, but at  
events attended by more average people. That could e.g. be open source  
conferences, hacker events, etc.

I put "industrial" in quotes because there isn't an industry yet. The  
companies using OCaml are doing this for very individual reasons, and  
there is not much cooperation (so far I can see that).

As you mention CUFP, this is a different type of thing. It's a  
collection of success stories to encourage companies (and more  
something for CTOs and chief architects).

> The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend,  
> instead of just European ones.  The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years  
> ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community.   
> ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to  
> arrange with a single user group.

Don't get me wrong, but a "travelling" conference has also many cons.  
E.g. in general it is harder to plan the attendance (reserving time,  
planning the costs, etc.), especially if the location is not at a  
traffic hub.

> Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive thing.  
> Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here:  
> http://ocaml.org/meetings.html
> Do get involved and set up your own.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm really doing enough for the  
success of OCaml.

Gerd

> -anil
> 
> 
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: AW: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Malcolm Matalka]

OUD was part of CUFP last year, which is the Commercial part of ICFP. I
did not attend ICFP but just CUFP, and didn't find OUD or CUFP too
academic.  Did you?

/M

Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> writes:

> Sorry Anil,
>
> I did meant to criticize people who put a lot of work into organizing  
> events. On the contrary, this is highly welcome.
>
> My point is rather that you get a certain audience when an event is  
> organized as an addendum to a large academic conference. You don't get  
> the average programmer, but people with a strong academic background.  
> Or more direct: OUD is then just a side program for people who attend  
> ICFP anyway.
>
> Am 03.04.2013 15:41:47 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>> >> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm  
>> wondering if
>> >> > it's the same this year?
>> >> >
>> >> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being  
>> chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't  
>> gone yet out.
>> >
>> > Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the  
>> first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic  
>> rituals.
>> 
>> Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people,  
>> reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors,  
>> organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and  
>> uploading them online.  ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that for  
>> us (Sylvain did a big job before).
>
> This is not meant with "rituals". The ritual is to visit ICFP every  
> year. The ritual is to publish a paper every year and to bore the  
> audience, as it happens often enough. This is acceptable as being part  
> of science, but I just have some doubts whether this is the right  
> environment for a users' meeting, especially if you also want to  
> address users outside universities and research institutes.
>
>> Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me.  I like  
>> attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML,  
>> Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks  
>> from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and  
>> wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the community.
>
> As an "industrial" user I am very interested into spreading out the  
> word to the masses. We have difficulties finding programmers, which is  
> no wonder if nobody (on the street) has ever heard of the language.  
> What we need are not further talks at scientific conferences, but at  
> events attended by more average people. That could e.g. be open source  
> conferences, hacker events, etc.
>
> I put "industrial" in quotes because there isn't an industry yet. The  
> companies using OCaml are doing this for very individual reasons, and  
> there is not much cooperation (so far I can see that).
>
> As you mention CUFP, this is a different type of thing. It's a  
> collection of success stories to encourage companies (and more  
> something for CTOs and chief architects).
>
>> The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend,  
>> instead of just European ones.  The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years  
>> ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community.   
>> ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to  
>> arrange with a single user group.
>
> Don't get me wrong, but a "travelling" conference has also many cons.  
> E.g. in general it is harder to plan the attendance (reserving time,  
> planning the costs, etc.), especially if the location is not at a  
> traffic hub.
>
>> Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive thing.  
>> Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here:  
>> http://ocaml.org/meetings.html
>> Do get involved and set up your own.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm really doing enough for the  
> success of OCaml.
>
> Gerd
>
>> -anil
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>> 

AW: AW: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Gerd Stolpmann]

Am 03.04.2013 18:39:17 schrieb(en) Malcolm Matalka:
> OUD was part of CUFP last year, which is the Commercial part of ICFP.  
> I
> did not attend ICFP but just CUFP, and didn't find OUD or CUFP too
> academic.  Did you?

Can't tell about last year, but I visited both CUFP and OUD twice  
(independently), and it was ok (well, I gave talks on OUD). But this is  
not my point - I'm more worried about the audience the event attracts,  
and also about the character in total. I mean it's a difference whether  
you have an event of its own (even if small) or if it is part of a  
larger conference, where you certainly also have visitors just seeking  
entertainment for a bridge day.

You know I'm one of the guys who are always worried if the most  
convenient path is taken.

Gerd

> 
> /M
> 
> Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> writes:
> 
> > Sorry Anil,
> >
> > I did meant to criticize people who put a lot of work into  
> organizing
> > events. On the contrary, this is highly welcome.
> >
> > My point is rather that you get a certain audience when an event is
> > organized as an addendum to a large academic conference. You don't  
> get
> > the average programmer, but people with a strong academic  
> background.
> > Or more direct: OUD is then just a side program for people who  
> attend
> > ICFP anyway.
> >
> > Am 03.04.2013 15:41:47 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
> >> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm
> >> wondering if
> >> >> > it's the same this year?
> >> >> >
> >> >> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being
> >> chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't
> >> gone yet out.
> >> >
> >> > Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the
> >> first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic
> >> rituals.
> >>
> >> Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people,
> >> reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors,
> >> organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and
> >> uploading them online.  ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that  
> for
> >> us (Sylvain did a big job before).
> >
> > This is not meant with "rituals". The ritual is to visit ICFP every
> > year. The ritual is to publish a paper every year and to bore the
> > audience, as it happens often enough. This is acceptable as being  
> part
> > of science, but I just have some doubts whether this is the right
> > environment for a users' meeting, especially if you also want to
> > address users outside universities and research institutes.
> >
> >> Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me.  I like
> >> attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML,
> >> Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks
> >> from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and
> >> wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the  
> community.
> >
> > As an "industrial" user I am very interested into spreading out the
> > word to the masses. We have difficulties finding programmers, which  
> is
> > no wonder if nobody (on the street) has ever heard of the language.
> > What we need are not further talks at scientific conferences, but at
> > events attended by more average people. That could e.g. be open  
> source
> > conferences, hacker events, etc.
> >
> > I put "industrial" in quotes because there isn't an industry yet.  
> The
> > companies using OCaml are doing this for very individual reasons,  
> and
> > there is not much cooperation (so far I can see that).
> >
> > As you mention CUFP, this is a different type of thing. It's a
> > collection of success stories to encourage companies (and more
> > something for CTOs and chief architects).
> >
> >> The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend,
> >> instead of just European ones.  The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years
> >> ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community.
> >> ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to
> >> arrange with a single user group.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, but a "travelling" conference has also many  
> cons.
> > E.g. in general it is harder to plan the attendance (reserving time,
> > planning the costs, etc.), especially if the location is not at a
> > traffic hub.
> >
> >> Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive  
> thing.
> >> Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here:
> >> http://ocaml.org/meetings.html
> >> Do get involved and set up your own.
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm really doing enough for  
> the
> > success of OCaml.
> >
> > Gerd
> >
> >> -anil
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> >> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> >> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> >> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> >>
> 
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 
> 



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Amir Chaudhry]

On 3 Apr 2013, at 17:54, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> wrote:

> Am 03.04.2013 18:39:17 schrieb(en) Malcolm Matalka:
>> OUD was part of CUFP last year, which is the Commercial part of ICFP. I
>> did not attend ICFP but just CUFP, and didn't find OUD or CUFP too
>> academic.  Did you?
> 
> Can't tell about last year, but I visited both CUFP and OUD twice (independently), and it was ok (well, I gave talks on OUD). But this is not my point - I'm more worried about the audience the event attracts, and also about the character in total. I mean it's a difference whether you have an event of its own (even if small) or if it is part of a larger conference, where you certainly also have visitors just seeking entertainment for a bridge day.

The audience that attends depends on how the event is marketed.  That includes people on this list spreading the word to other commercial users of FP, irrespective of where the event is held.  Apart from a comment about academic ritual, you haven't clarified what the problem really is.  In my view, if the events are described properly and word is spread widely, then anyone who shows up *is* the intended audience.  I personally don't know anyone (academic or otherwise) who'd spend a bridge day by going to events they're not interested in (as opposed to, say, doing some tourist stuff).

amir


> You know I'm one of the guys who are always worried if the most convenient path is taken.
> 
> Gerd
> 
>> /M
>> Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> writes:
>> > Sorry Anil,
>> >
>> > I did meant to criticize people who put a lot of work into organizing
>> > events. On the contrary, this is highly welcome.
>> >
>> > My point is rather that you get a certain audience when an event is
>> > organized as an addendum to a large academic conference. You don't get
>> > the average programmer, but people with a strong academic background.
>> > Or more direct: OUD is then just a side program for people who attend
>> > ICFP anyway.
>> >
>> > Am 03.04.2013 15:41:47 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> >> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm
>> >> wondering if
>> >> >> > it's the same this year?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being
>> >> chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't
>> >> gone yet out.
>> >> >
>> >> > Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the
>> >> first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic
>> >> rituals.
>> >>
>> >> Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people,
>> >> reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors,
>> >> organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and
>> >> uploading them online.  ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that for
>> >> us (Sylvain did a big job before).
>> >
>> > This is not meant with "rituals". The ritual is to visit ICFP every
>> > year. The ritual is to publish a paper every year and to bore the
>> > audience, as it happens often enough. This is acceptable as being part
>> > of science, but I just have some doubts whether this is the right
>> > environment for a users' meeting, especially if you also want to
>> > address users outside universities and research institutes.
>> >
>> >> Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me.  I like
>> >> attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML,
>> >> Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks
>> >> from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and
>> >> wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the community.
>> >
>> > As an "industrial" user I am very interested into spreading out the
>> > word to the masses. We have difficulties finding programmers, which is
>> > no wonder if nobody (on the street) has ever heard of the language.
>> > What we need are not further talks at scientific conferences, but at
>> > events attended by more average people. That could e.g. be open source
>> > conferences, hacker events, etc.
>> >
>> > I put "industrial" in quotes because there isn't an industry yet. The
>> > companies using OCaml are doing this for very individual reasons, and
>> > there is not much cooperation (so far I can see that).
>> >
>> > As you mention CUFP, this is a different type of thing. It's a
>> > collection of success stories to encourage companies (and more
>> > something for CTOs and chief architects).
>> >
>> >> The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend,
>> >> instead of just European ones.  The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years
>> >> ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community.
>> >> ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to
>> >> arrange with a single user group.
>> >
>> > Don't get me wrong, but a "travelling" conference has also many cons.
>> > E.g. in general it is harder to plan the attendance (reserving time,
>> > planning the costs, etc.), especially if the location is not at a
>> > traffic hub.
>> >
>> >> Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive thing.
>> >> Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here:
>> >> http://ocaml.org/meetings.html
>> >> Do get involved and set up your own.
>> >
>> > Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm really doing enough for the
>> > success of OCaml.
>> >
>> > Gerd
>> >
>> >> -anil
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> >> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> >> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>> >> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>> >>
>> --
>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
> Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
> Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
> Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> -- 
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Martin Jambon]

On Wed 03 Apr 2013 10:32:08 AM PDT, Amir Chaudhry wrote:
>
> On 3 Apr 2013, at 17:54, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 03.04.2013 18:39:17 schrieb(en) Malcolm Matalka:
>>> OUD was part of CUFP last year, which is the Commercial part of ICFP. I
>>> did not attend ICFP but just CUFP, and didn't find OUD or CUFP too
>>> academic.  Did you?
>>
>> Can't tell about last year, but I visited both CUFP and OUD twice (independently), and it was ok (well, I gave talks on OUD). But this is not my point - I'm more worried about the audience the event attracts, and also about the character in total. I mean it's a difference whether you have an event of its own (even if small) or if it is part of a larger conference, where you certainly also have visitors just seeking entertainment for a bridge day.
>
> The audience that attends depends on how the event is marketed.  That includes people on this list spreading the word to other commercial users of FP, irrespective of where the event is held.  Apart from a comment about academic ritual, you haven't clarified what the problem really is.  In my view, if the events are described properly and word is spread widely, then anyone who shows up *is* the intended audience.  I personally don't know anyone (academic or otherwise) who'd spend a bridge day by going to events they're not interested in (as opposed to, say, doing some tourist stuff).

"Spreading the word widely" doesn't happen like that - it's the core of 
the problem.

In thought the goal was to raise awareness among professional software 
developers who might consider trying some more "functional" approaches 
to programming.
Pardon my cynicism, but this is different from a meeting whose goal is 
to show academics that their pet language was used by that one person 
in that big company and then pat each other on the back.


Martin

Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Anil Madhavapeddy]

On 3 Apr 2013, at 11:02, Martin Jambon <martin.jambon@ens-lyon.org> wrote:
> 
> "Spreading the word widely" doesn't happen like that - it's the core of the problem.
> 
> In thought the goal was to raise awareness among professional software developers who might consider trying some more "functional" approaches to programming.
> Pardon my cynicism, but this is different from a meeting whose goal is to show academics that their pet language was used by that one person in that big company and then pat each other on the back.

Are you all in a bad mood today or something?  That's quite the mischaracterisation of CUFP. Let me sample some of the videos from the CUFP website (at http://cufp.org/videos)

* Scala at Twitter
http://cufp.org/videos/scaling-scala-twitter-marius-eriksen-twitter
* Facebook Chat in Erlang
http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-facebook
* Freebase and Metaweb in OCaml (now part of Google)
http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-freebase-warren-harris-metaweb
* Scheme for games development in Uncharted 3
http://cufp.org/videos/functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-development
* F# at Microsoft for biological computing
http://cufp.org/videos/using-f-prove-stabilisation-biological-networks
http://cufp.org/videos/f-embracing-functional-programming-visual-studio-2010-luke-hoban-mic
* Big data at Nokia using Erlang/OCaml:
http://cufp.org/videos/disco-using-erlang-implement-mapreduce

And I haven't even mentioned our usual friends from Citrix or Jane Street:
* http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-haskell-xenclient
* http://cufp.org/videos/jane-street-status-report

And many more, of varying size and impact: there's been an interesting evolution from the 'bedroom FP user' to large companies that use it without blinking an eye.  All of this has been tracked by CUFP over the years, although we unfortunately don't have videos from the earliest ones.  

Please do stop directing your ire at a workshop that has done its best to broaden the appeal of FP for nearly a decade now, and do start thinking about getting involved in the (many) open-source events that are out there these days.  Anyone can propose talks at places like Strange Loop and OSCON, and your travel and registration is often covered by the event organisers.

-anil

Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Malcolm Matalka]

I, for one, have had an amazing time at the two CUFPs I've attended.  I
was also really happy OUD took place during the last CUFP.  I don't get
to use Ocaml professionally so CUFP is my best bet for getting to
interact with the Ocaml community in person, which is a great
experience.

/Malcolm

Anil Madhavapeddy <anil@recoil.org> writes:

> On 3 Apr 2013, at 11:02, Martin Jambon <martin.jambon@ens-lyon.org> wrote:
>> 
>> "Spreading the word widely" doesn't happen like that - it's the core of the problem.
>> 
>> In thought the goal was to raise awareness among professional software developers who might consider trying some more "functional" approaches to programming.
>> Pardon my cynicism, but this is different from a meeting whose goal is to show academics that their pet language was used by that one person in that big company and then pat each other on the back.
>
> Are you all in a bad mood today or something?  That's quite the mischaracterisation of CUFP. Let me sample some of the videos from the CUFP website (at http://cufp.org/videos)
>
> * Scala at Twitter
> http://cufp.org/videos/scaling-scala-twitter-marius-eriksen-twitter
> * Facebook Chat in Erlang
> http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-facebook
> * Freebase and Metaweb in OCaml (now part of Google)
> http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-freebase-warren-harris-metaweb
> * Scheme for games development in Uncharted 3
> http://cufp.org/videos/functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-development
> * F# at Microsoft for biological computing
> http://cufp.org/videos/using-f-prove-stabilisation-biological-networks
> http://cufp.org/videos/f-embracing-functional-programming-visual-studio-2010-luke-hoban-mic
> * Big data at Nokia using Erlang/OCaml:
> http://cufp.org/videos/disco-using-erlang-implement-mapreduce
>
> And I haven't even mentioned our usual friends from Citrix or Jane Street:
> * http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-haskell-xenclient
> * http://cufp.org/videos/jane-street-status-report
>
> And many more, of varying size and impact: there's been an interesting evolution from the 'bedroom FP user' to large companies that use it
> without blinking an eye.  All of this has been tracked by CUFP over the years, although we unfortunately don't have videos from the earliest
> ones.
>
> Please do stop directing your ire at a workshop that has done its best to broaden the appeal of FP for nearly a decade now, and do start
> thinking about getting involved in the (many) open-source events that are out there these days.  Anyone can propose talks at places like
> Strange Loop and OSCON, and your travel and registration is often covered by the event organisers.
>
> -anil

AW: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Gerd Stolpmann]

Am 03.04.2013 20:33:17 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
> On 3 Apr 2013, at 11:02, Martin Jambon <martin.jambon@ens-lyon.org>  
> wrote:
> >
> > "Spreading the word widely" doesn't happen like that - it's the  
> core of the problem.
> >
> > In thought the goal was to raise awareness among professional  
> software developers who might consider trying some more "functional"  
> approaches to programming.
> > Pardon my cynicism, but this is different from a meeting whose goal  
> is to show academics that their pet language was used by that one  
> person in that big company and then pat each other on the back.
> 
> Are you all in a bad mood today or something?

Come on, that's Martin's special humor.

> That's quite the mischaracterisation of CUFP. Let me sample some of  
> the videos from the CUFP website (at http://cufp.org/videos)

In deed, this is all interesting and encouraging, and there is no  
question that CUFP is an important event. For CUFP, I don't see any  
problem of colocating it with ICFP. For the researchers this is, as  
Martin points out in his special way, also a source of motivation. For  
OUD, the topics are different, though - it's more practical problems,  
questions of OCaml's roadmap, and generally more technical. So I'd make  
there a difference.

Gerd

> * Scala at Twitter
> http://cufp.org/videos/scaling-scala-twitter-marius-eriksen-twitter
> * Facebook Chat in Erlang
> http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-facebook
> * Freebase and Metaweb in OCaml (now part of Google)
> http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-freebase-warren-harris-metaweb
> * Scheme for games development in Uncharted 3
> http://cufp.org/videos/functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-development
> * F# at Microsoft for biological computing
> http://cufp.org/videos/using-f-prove-stabilisation-biological-networks
> http://cufp.org/videos/f-embracing-functional-programming-visual-studio-2010-luke-hoban-mic
> * Big data at Nokia using Erlang/OCaml:
> http://cufp.org/videos/disco-using-erlang-implement-mapreduce
> 
> And I haven't even mentioned our usual friends from Citrix or Jane  
> Street:
> * http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-haskell-xenclient
> * http://cufp.org/videos/jane-street-status-report
> 
> And many more, of varying size and impact: there's been an  
> interesting evolution from the 'bedroom FP user' to large companies  
> that use it without blinking an eye.  All of this has been tracked by  
> CUFP over the years, although we unfortunately don't have videos from  
> the earliest ones.
> 
> Please do stop directing your ire at a workshop that has done its  
> best to broaden the appeal of FP for nearly a decade now, and do  
> start thinking about getting involved in the (many) open-source  
> events that are out there these days.  Anyone can propose talks at  
> places like Strange Loop and OSCON, and your travel and registration  
> is often covered by the event organisers.
> 
> -anil
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Gabriel Scherer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5252 bytes --]

I am also interested in participating to more developer-oriented
conference, preferably about Free Software. I missed the "call for
presentation" of this year FOSDEM but did consider sending something there,
and I will looking for a possibility to either talk or simply attend and
listen next year. If you (Gerd, Martin) are also interested, it would
surely be great to have more people from the OCaml community there.


On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>wrote:

> Am 03.04.2013 20:33:17 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>
>  On 3 Apr 2013, at 11:02, Martin Jambon <martin.jambon@ens-lyon.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > "Spreading the word widely" doesn't happen like that - it's the core of
>> the problem.
>> >
>> > In thought the goal was to raise awareness among professional software
>> developers who might consider trying some more "functional" approaches to
>> programming.
>> > Pardon my cynicism, but this is different from a meeting whose goal is
>> to show academics that their pet language was used by that one person in
>> that big company and then pat each other on the back.
>>
>> Are you all in a bad mood today or something?
>>
>
> Come on, that's Martin's special humor.
>
>
>  That's quite the mischaracterisation of CUFP. Let me sample some of the
>> videos from the CUFP website (at http://cufp.org/videos)
>>
>
> In deed, this is all interesting and encouraging, and there is no question
> that CUFP is an important event. For CUFP, I don't see any problem of
> colocating it with ICFP. For the researchers this is, as Martin points out
> in his special way, also a source of motivation. For OUD, the topics are
> different, though - it's more practical problems, questions of OCaml's
> roadmap, and generally more technical. So I'd make there a difference.
>
> Gerd
>
>
>  * Scala at Twitter
>> http://cufp.org/videos/**scaling-scala-twitter-marius-**eriksen-twitter<http://cufp.org/videos/scaling-scala-twitter-marius-eriksen-twitter>
>> * Facebook Chat in Erlang
>> http://cufp.org/videos/**functional-programming-**facebook<http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-facebook>
>> * Freebase and Metaweb in OCaml (now part of Google)
>> http://cufp.org/videos/**functional-programming-**
>> freebase-warren-harris-metaweb<http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-freebase-warren-harris-metaweb>
>> * Scheme for games development in Uncharted 3
>> http://cufp.org/videos/**functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-**development<http://cufp.org/videos/functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-development>
>> * F# at Microsoft for biological computing
>> http://cufp.org/videos/using-**f-prove-stabilisation-**
>> biological-networks<http://cufp.org/videos/using-f-prove-stabilisation-biological-networks>
>> http://cufp.org/videos/f-**embracing-functional-**
>> programming-visual-studio-**2010-luke-hoban-mic<http://cufp.org/videos/f-embracing-functional-programming-visual-studio-2010-luke-hoban-mic>
>> * Big data at Nokia using Erlang/OCaml:
>> http://cufp.org/videos/disco-**using-erlang-implement-**mapreduce<http://cufp.org/videos/disco-using-erlang-implement-mapreduce>
>>
>> And I haven't even mentioned our usual friends from Citrix or Jane Street:
>> * http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-**haskell-xenclient<http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-haskell-xenclient>
>> * http://cufp.org/videos/jane-**street-status-report<http://cufp.org/videos/jane-street-status-report>
>>
>> And many more, of varying size and impact: there's been an interesting
>> evolution from the 'bedroom FP user' to large companies that use it without
>> blinking an eye.  All of this has been tracked by CUFP over the years,
>> although we unfortunately don't have videos from the earliest ones.
>>
>> Please do stop directing your ire at a workshop that has done its best to
>> broaden the appeal of FP for nearly a decade now, and do start thinking
>> about getting involved in the (many) open-source events that are out there
>> these days.  Anyone can propose talks at places like Strange Loop and
>> OSCON, and your travel and registration is often covered by the event
>> organisers.
>>
>> -anil
>> --
>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/**arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list>
>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**ocaml_beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners>
>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-**bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------**------------------------------
> Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
> Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
> Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/**contact.html<http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html>
> Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
> ------------------------------**------------------------------
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/**arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list>
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**ocaml_beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners>
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-**bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 7227 bytes --]

AW: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Gerd Stolpmann]

Am 03.04.2013 23:21:01 schrieb(en) Gabriel Scherer:
> I am also interested in participating to more developer-oriented
> conference, preferably about Free Software. I missed the "call for
> presentation" of this year FOSDEM but did consider sending something  
> there,
> and I will looking for a possibility to either talk or simply attend  
> and
> listen next year. If you (Gerd, Martin) are also interested, it would
> surely be great to have more people from the OCaml community there.

Yes, I'm interested, and Brussels is also in reach. There are also a  
couple of things I could talk about (e.g. multicore in OCaml, or  
map/reduce in OCaml).

Gerd

> 
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Gerd Stolpmann  
> <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>wrote:
> 
> > Am 03.04.2013 20:33:17 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
> >
> >  On 3 Apr 2013, at 11:02, Martin Jambon <martin.jambon@ens-lyon.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "Spreading the word widely" doesn't happen like that - it's the  
> core of
> >> the problem.
> >> >
> >> > In thought the goal was to raise awareness among professional  
> software
> >> developers who might consider trying some more "functional"  
> approaches to
> >> programming.
> >> > Pardon my cynicism, but this is different from a meeting whose  
> goal is
> >> to show academics that their pet language was used by that one  
> person in
> >> that big company and then pat each other on the back.
> >>
> >> Are you all in a bad mood today or something?
> >>
> >
> > Come on, that's Martin's special humor.
> >
> >
> >  That's quite the mischaracterisation of CUFP. Let me sample some  
> of the
> >> videos from the CUFP website (at http://cufp.org/videos)
> >>
> >
> > In deed, this is all interesting and encouraging, and there is no  
> question
> > that CUFP is an important event. For CUFP, I don't see any problem  
> of
> > colocating it with ICFP. For the researchers this is, as Martin  
> points out
> > in his special way, also a source of motivation. For OUD, the  
> topics are
> > different, though - it's more practical problems, questions of  
> OCaml's
> > roadmap, and generally more technical. So I'd make there a  
> difference.
> >
> > Gerd
> >
> >
> >  * Scala at Twitter
> >>  
> http://cufp.org/videos/**scaling-scala-twitter-marius-**eriksen-twitter<http://cufp.org/videos/scaling-scala-twitter-marius-eriksen-twitter>
> >> * Facebook Chat in Erlang
> >>  
> http://cufp.org/videos/**functional-programming-**facebook<http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-facebook>
> >> * Freebase and Metaweb in OCaml (now part of Google)
> >> http://cufp.org/videos/**functional-programming-**
> >>  
> freebase-warren-harris-metaweb<http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-freebase-warren-harris-metaweb>
> >> * Scheme for games development in Uncharted 3
> >>  
> http://cufp.org/videos/**functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-**development<http://cufp.org/videos/functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-development>
> >> * F# at Microsoft for biological computing
> >> http://cufp.org/videos/using-**f-prove-stabilisation-**
> >>  
> biological-networks<http://cufp.org/videos/using-f-prove-stabilisation-biological-networks>
> >> http://cufp.org/videos/f-**embracing-functional-**
> >>  
> programming-visual-studio-**2010-luke-hoban-mic<http://cufp.org/videos/f-embracing-functional-programming-visual-studio-2010-luke-hoban-mic>
> >> * Big data at Nokia using Erlang/OCaml:
> >>  
> http://cufp.org/videos/disco-**using-erlang-implement-**mapreduce<http://cufp.org/videos/disco-using-erlang-implement-mapreduce>
> >>
> >> And I haven't even mentioned our usual friends from Citrix or Jane  
> Street:
> >> *  
> http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-**haskell-xenclient<http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-haskell-xenclient>
> >> *  
> http://cufp.org/videos/jane-**street-status-report<http://cufp.org/videos/jane-street-status-report>
> >>
> >> And many more, of varying size and impact: there's been an  
> interesting
> >> evolution from the 'bedroom FP user' to large companies that use  
> it without
> >> blinking an eye.  All of this has been tracked by CUFP over the  
> years,
> >> although we unfortunately don't have videos from the earliest ones.
> >>
> >> Please do stop directing your ire at a workshop that has done its  
> best to
> >> broaden the appeal of FP for nearly a decade now, and do start  
> thinking
> >> about getting involved in the (many) open-source events that are  
> out there
> >> these days.  Anyone can propose talks at places like Strange Loop  
> and
> >> OSCON, and your travel and registration is often covered by the  
> event
> >> organisers.
> >>
> >> -anil
> >> --
> >> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> >>  
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/**arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list>
> >> Beginner's list:  
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**ocaml_beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners>
> >> Bug reports:  
> http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-**bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------**------------------------------
> > Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
> > Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
> > Contact details:         
> http://www.camlcity.org/**contact.html<http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html>
> > Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
> > ------------------------------**------------------------------
> > --
> > Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> >  
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/**arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list>
> > Beginner's list:  
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**ocaml_beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners>
> > Bug reports:  
> http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-**bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs>
> >
> 
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Esther Baruk]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 9560 bytes --]

Having attended the last two OCaml meetings (as it was called at that
time), I didn't find OUD very different from previous events.
It is not too academic, accessible to "industrial users", and - I think -
interesting for "average users".  Also, the atmosphere and the people
attending were not so much different either.

It is also worth mentioning that it gives the OCaml community visibility in
this big FP conference (there are single events for Haskell, Scheme, F#, so
why not OCaml ?).


Esther Baruk


On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:45 PM, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>wrote:

> Am 03.04.2013 23:21:01 schrieb(en) Gabriel Scherer:
>
>  I am also interested in participating to more developer-oriented
>> conference, preferably about Free Software. I missed the "call for
>> presentation" of this year FOSDEM but did consider sending something
>> there,
>> and I will looking for a possibility to either talk or simply attend and
>> listen next year. If you (Gerd, Martin) are also interested, it would
>> surely be great to have more people from the OCaml community there.
>>
>
> Yes, I'm interested, and Brussels is also in reach. There are also a
> couple of things I could talk about (e.g. multicore in OCaml, or map/reduce
> in OCaml).
>
> Gerd
>
>
>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > Am 03.04.2013 20:33:17 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> >
>> >  On 3 Apr 2013, at 11:02, Martin Jambon <martin.jambon@ens-lyon.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > "Spreading the word widely" doesn't happen like that - it's the core
>> of
>> >> the problem.
>> >> >
>> >> > In thought the goal was to raise awareness among professional
>> software
>> >> developers who might consider trying some more "functional" approaches
>> to
>> >> programming.
>> >> > Pardon my cynicism, but this is different from a meeting whose goal
>> is
>> >> to show academics that their pet language was used by that one person
>> in
>> >> that big company and then pat each other on the back.
>> >>
>> >> Are you all in a bad mood today or something?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Come on, that's Martin's special humor.
>> >
>> >
>> >  That's quite the mischaracterisation of CUFP. Let me sample some of the
>> >> videos from the CUFP website (at http://cufp.org/videos)
>> >>
>> >
>> > In deed, this is all interesting and encouraging, and there is no
>> question
>> > that CUFP is an important event. For CUFP, I don't see any problem of
>> > colocating it with ICFP. For the researchers this is, as Martin points
>> out
>> > in his special way, also a source of motivation. For OUD, the topics are
>> > different, though - it's more practical problems, questions of OCaml's
>> > roadmap, and generally more technical. So I'd make there a difference.
>> >
>> > Gerd
>> >
>> >
>> >  * Scala at Twitter
>> >> http://cufp.org/videos/****scaling-scala-twitter-marius-***
>> *eriksen-twitter<http://cufp.org/videos/**scaling-scala-twitter-marius-**eriksen-twitter>
>> <http://cufp.**org/videos/scaling-scala-**twitter-marius-eriksen-twitter<http://cufp.org/videos/scaling-scala-twitter-marius-eriksen-twitter>
>> **>
>>
>> >> * Facebook Chat in Erlang
>> >> http://cufp.org/videos/****functional-programming-****facebook<http://cufp.org/videos/**functional-programming-**facebook>
>> <http://cufp.org/**videos/functional-programming-**facebook<http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-facebook>
>> >
>>
>> >> * Freebase and Metaweb in OCaml (now part of Google)
>> >> http://cufp.org/videos/****functional-programming-**<http://cufp.org/videos/**functional-programming-**>
>> >> freebase-warren-harris-**metaweb<http://cufp.org/**
>> videos/functional-programming-**freebase-warren-harris-metaweb<http://cufp.org/videos/functional-programming-freebase-warren-harris-metaweb>
>> **>
>>
>> >> * Scheme for games development in Uncharted 3
>> >> http://cufp.org/videos/****functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-**
>> **development<http://cufp.org/videos/**functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-**development>
>> <http://cufp.org/**videos/functional-mzscheme-**dsls-game-development<http://cufp.org/videos/functional-mzscheme-dsls-game-development>
>> >
>>
>> >> * F# at Microsoft for biological computing
>> >> http://cufp.org/videos/using-****f-prove-stabilisation-**<http://cufp.org/videos/using-**f-prove-stabilisation-**>
>> >> biological-networks<http://**cufp.org/videos/using-f-prove-**
>> stabilisation-biological-**networks<http://cufp.org/videos/using-f-prove-stabilisation-biological-networks>
>> >
>> >> http://cufp.org/videos/f-****embracing-functional-**<http://cufp.org/videos/f-**embracing-functional-**>
>> >> programming-visual-studio-****2010-luke-hoban-mic<http://**
>> cufp.org/videos/f-embracing-**functional-programming-visual-**
>> studio-2010-luke-hoban-mic<http://cufp.org/videos/f-embracing-functional-programming-visual-studio-2010-luke-hoban-mic>
>> >
>>
>> >> * Big data at Nokia using Erlang/OCaml:
>> >> http://cufp.org/videos/disco-****using-erlang-implement-****mapreduce<http://cufp.org/videos/disco-**using-erlang-implement-**mapreduce>
>> <http://cufp.org/**videos/disco-using-erlang-**implement-mapreduce<http://cufp.org/videos/disco-using-erlang-implement-mapreduce>
>> >
>>
>> >>
>> >> And I haven't even mentioned our usual friends from Citrix or Jane
>> Street:
>> >> * http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-****haskell-xenclient<http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-**haskell-xenclient>
>> <http://**cufp.org/videos/citrix-**haskell-xenclient<http://cufp.org/videos/citrix-haskell-xenclient>
>> >
>> >> * http://cufp.org/videos/jane-****street-status-report<http://cufp.org/videos/jane-**street-status-report>
>> <http://**cufp.org/videos/jane-street-**status-report<http://cufp.org/videos/jane-street-status-report>
>> >
>>
>> >>
>> >> And many more, of varying size and impact: there's been an interesting
>> >> evolution from the 'bedroom FP user' to large companies that use it
>> without
>> >> blinking an eye.  All of this has been tracked by CUFP over the years,
>> >> although we unfortunately don't have videos from the earliest ones.
>> >>
>> >> Please do stop directing your ire at a workshop that has done its best
>> to
>> >> broaden the appeal of FP for nearly a decade now, and do start thinking
>> >> about getting involved in the (many) open-source events that are out
>> there
>> >> these days.  Anyone can propose talks at places like Strange Loop and
>> >> OSCON, and your travel and registration is often covered by the event
>> >> organisers.
>> >>
>> >> -anil
>> >> --
>> >> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> >> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/****arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/**arc/caml-list>
>> <https://sympa.**inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list>
>> >
>> >> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/****ocaml_beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**ocaml_beginners>
>> <http://**groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_**beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners>
>> >
>> >> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-****bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-**bugs>
>> <http://caml.inria.fr/**bin/caml-bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ------------------------------****----------------------------**--
>>
>> > Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
>> > Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
>> > Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/****contact.html<http://www.camlcity.org/**contact.html>
>> <http://www.**camlcity.org/contact.html<http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html>
>> >
>> > Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
>> > ------------------------------****----------------------------**--
>>
>> > --
>> > Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/****arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/**arc/caml-list>
>> <https://sympa.**inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list>
>> >
>> > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/****ocaml_beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**ocaml_beginners>
>> <http://**groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_**beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners>
>> >
>> > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-****bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-**bugs>
>> <http://caml.inria.fr/**bin/caml-bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/**arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list>
>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**ocaml_beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners>
>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-**bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------**------------------------------
> Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
> Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
> Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/**contact.html<http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html>
> Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
> ------------------------------**------------------------------
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/**arc/caml-list<https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list>
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**ocaml_beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners>
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-**bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs>
>

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Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Anil Madhavapeddy]

We did think hard before moving the OCaml workshop over to ICFP/CUFP,
as there are real downsides (notably, the registration cost, which was
fully sponsored by INRIA before).  On the flip side, we now have access
to much better organisation and student travel grants, and the economies
of scale.

I do agree with the need to speak at other open conferences.  I'm giving
a talk at the O'Reilly OSCON this year, but I'm not aware of any other
OCaml-related proposals there.

I'd strongly suggest improving our presence at FOSDEM, which is scheduled
regularly in Belgium every year and has a huge turnout. The last time I
spoke there, there were close to a thousand people in the audience (not
on an OCaml-related topic).  I think that would be a great place to host
a dev room next year, if enough people express interest in advance to
justify it to the organisers.  Let me know privately if you're interested
in this.

-anil

On 3 Apr 2013, at 09:39, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com> wrote:

> OUD was part of CUFP last year, which is the Commercial part of ICFP. I
> did not attend ICFP but just CUFP, and didn't find OUD or CUFP too
> academic.  Did you?
> 
> /M
> 
> Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> writes:
> 
>> Sorry Anil,
>> 
>> I did meant to criticize people who put a lot of work into organizing  
>> events. On the contrary, this is highly welcome.
>> 
>> My point is rather that you get a certain audience when an event is  
>> organized as an addendum to a large academic conference. You don't get  
>> the average programmer, but people with a strong academic background.  
>> Or more direct: OUD is then just a side program for people who attend  
>> ICFP anyway.
>> 
>> Am 03.04.2013 15:41:47 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>>> On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>>>>> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm  
>>> wondering if
>>>>>> it's the same this year?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being  
>>> chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't  
>>> gone yet out.
>>>> 
>>>> Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the  
>>> first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic  
>>> rituals.
>>> 
>>> Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people,  
>>> reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors,  
>>> organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and  
>>> uploading them online.  ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that for  
>>> us (Sylvain did a big job before).
>> 
>> This is not meant with "rituals". The ritual is to visit ICFP every  
>> year. The ritual is to publish a paper every year and to bore the  
>> audience, as it happens often enough. This is acceptable as being part  
>> of science, but I just have some doubts whether this is the right  
>> environment for a users' meeting, especially if you also want to  
>> address users outside universities and research institutes.
>> 
>>> Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me.  I like  
>>> attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML,  
>>> Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks  
>>> from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and  
>>> wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the community.
>> 
>> As an "industrial" user I am very interested into spreading out the  
>> word to the masses. We have difficulties finding programmers, which is  
>> no wonder if nobody (on the street) has ever heard of the language.  
>> What we need are not further talks at scientific conferences, but at  
>> events attended by more average people. That could e.g. be open source  
>> conferences, hacker events, etc.
>> 
>> I put "industrial" in quotes because there isn't an industry yet. The  
>> companies using OCaml are doing this for very individual reasons, and  
>> there is not much cooperation (so far I can see that).
>> 
>> As you mention CUFP, this is a different type of thing. It's a  
>> collection of success stories to encourage companies (and more  
>> something for CTOs and chief architects).
>> 
>>> The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend,  
>>> instead of just European ones.  The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years  
>>> ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community.   
>>> ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to  
>>> arrange with a single user group.
>> 
>> Don't get me wrong, but a "travelling" conference has also many cons.  
>> E.g. in general it is harder to plan the attendance (reserving time,  
>> planning the costs, etc.), especially if the location is not at a  
>> traffic hub.
>> 
>>> Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive thing.  
>>> Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here:  
>>> http://ocaml.org/meetings.html
>>> Do get involved and set up your own.
>> 
>> Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm really doing enough for the  
>> success of OCaml.
>> 
>> Gerd
>> 
>>> -anil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>>> 
> 

Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Ashish Agarwal]

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On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>wrote:


> I liked the idea of the first couple of OUD events of keeping some
> distance to academic rituals.
>

I perceive the change in exactly the opposite way. The first couple of OUD
events were in Paris, i.e. all about keeping it close to Inria. By
co-locating with ICFP/CUFP, the meeting will for the first time be in the
US. That means we are reaching out to new people. And remember CUFP is a
significant conference, so it is inaccurate to categorize the entire week
of events as academic.

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