* [Caml-list] OCaml editor running tests or other tasks in background?
@ 2013-10-02 16:00 David MENTRE
2013-10-02 17:06 ` Gabriel Scherer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: David MENTRE @ 2013-10-02 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: caml users
Hello,
Somebody has recently shown me the NCrunch (http://www.ncrunch.net/)
plug-in running under Microsoft Visual Studio and I was quite
impressed by it. This plug-in allows to define and run a test suite on
a C# program. The very nice thing about NCrunch is that the tests are
run in the background, without any user intervention (without even the
need to save files!). A set of coloured icons are displayed next to
each test to see if the test succeeded or not and some additional
pop-ups or right-clicks bring additional information. This approach
brings a very fluent way to develop some code and test it
simultaneously.
In the same spirit, I have seen the Dafny development environment for
proved programs
(https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/dafny/), still on
Visual Studio, where this time Verification Conditions and proofs of
the program being edited are generated and run in the background, with
coloured icons displaying the result. Once again, no need for the user
to click on icons or do any specific action.
So my question: are there similar OCaml editors available or being
worked on that would allow running tasks in the background and
displaying result in the editor without user intervention?
There is apparently a lot of development in the OCaml development
environment these days so somebody might already work on something
similar.
By "OCaml editor", I am voluntarily ambiguous: I am interested in both
editor to program in OCaml and editor programmed in OCaml (or
interfaced with OCaml) and which could be used for other languages.
Best regards,
david
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] OCaml editor running tests or other tasks in background?
2013-10-02 16:00 [Caml-list] OCaml editor running tests or other tasks in background? David MENTRE
@ 2013-10-02 17:06 ` Gabriel Scherer
2013-10-02 18:53 ` David MENTRÉ
2013-10-02 18:56 ` Jeremie Salvucci
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Gabriel Scherer @ 2013-10-02 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David MENTRE; +Cc: caml users
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I think the most advanced project regarding IDE integration nowadays is
Merlin ( https://github.com/def-lkb/merlin ), which gives direct feedback
on syntax and typing errors. It doesn't have any knowledge of unit tests or
coverage checking, but it would probably be the right tool to start with to
integrate such a feature.
Note that there has been a bit of back-and-forth on the instant feedback
feature. Previous iterations were deemed a bit too visually invasive, and
some people don't like to risk being interrupted by their IDE while they
think about their code. I think it's always better to have the feature
available, but there is clearly some tuning to have, and potential for
overdoing it.
The other project that jumps to mind is the Why3 IDE (
http://why3.lri.fr/). It seems they're not hype enough to have video
stuff available, but from
what I remember the GUI does a pretty good job of giving feedback on how
external provers run, and pieces of code that were previously verified and
aren't anymore.
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 6:00 PM, David MENTRE <dmentre@linux-france.org>wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Somebody has recently shown me the NCrunch (http://www.ncrunch.net/)
> plug-in running under Microsoft Visual Studio and I was quite
> impressed by it. This plug-in allows to define and run a test suite on
> a C# program. The very nice thing about NCrunch is that the tests are
> run in the background, without any user intervention (without even the
> need to save files!). A set of coloured icons are displayed next to
> each test to see if the test succeeded or not and some additional
> pop-ups or right-clicks bring additional information. This approach
> brings a very fluent way to develop some code and test it
> simultaneously.
>
> In the same spirit, I have seen the Dafny development environment for
> proved programs
> (https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/dafny/), still on
> Visual Studio, where this time Verification Conditions and proofs of
> the program being edited are generated and run in the background, with
> coloured icons displaying the result. Once again, no need for the user
> to click on icons or do any specific action.
>
> So my question: are there similar OCaml editors available or being
> worked on that would allow running tasks in the background and
> displaying result in the editor without user intervention?
>
> There is apparently a lot of development in the OCaml development
> environment these days so somebody might already work on something
> similar.
>
> By "OCaml editor", I am voluntarily ambiguous: I am interested in both
> editor to program in OCaml and editor programmed in OCaml (or
> interfaced with OCaml) and which could be used for other languages.
>
> Best regards,
> david
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] OCaml editor running tests or other tasks in background?
2013-10-02 17:06 ` Gabriel Scherer
@ 2013-10-02 18:53 ` David MENTRÉ
2013-10-02 18:57 ` Simon Cruanes
2013-10-02 18:56 ` Jeremie Salvucci
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: David MENTRÉ @ 2013-10-02 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gabriel Scherer; +Cc: caml users
Hello,
2013-10-02 19:06, Gabriel Scherer:
> I think the most advanced project regarding IDE integration nowadays is
> Merlin ( https://github.com/def-lkb/merlin ), which gives direct
> feedback on syntax and typing errors. It doesn't have any knowledge of
> unit tests or coverage checking, but it would probably be the right tool
> to start with to integrate such a feature.
Thanks for the pointer.
> Note that there has been a bit of back-and-forth on the instant feedback
> feature. Previous iterations were deemed a bit too visually invasive,
> and some people don't like to risk being interrupted by their IDE while
> they think about their code. I think it's always better to have the
> feature available, but there is clearly some tuning to have, and
> potential for overdoing it.
I've only seen demos and never used this feature a lot. You probably
right that such a feature should be correctly tuned.
> The other project that jumps to mind is the Why3 IDE (
> http://why3.lri.fr/ ). It seems they're not hype enough to have video
> stuff available, but from what I remember the GUI does a pretty good job
> of giving feedback on how external provers run, and pieces of code that
> were previously verified and aren't anymore.
I've used Why3 IDE on a regular basis. This IDE is far from what I am
looking for because one needs to do explicit actions to launch the
provers. And Why3 IDE is focused on VCs, not the original source code
(event if the code is displayed). Ideally, one would edit a WhyML file
in an editor and the proved VC would be displayed automatically, like in
Dafny. In fact the purpose of an editor I'm looking for would be to hide
as much as possible the machinery to generate VC, launch provers, etc.,
from the user (and the same for test, doc generation, etc.). After all,
when we call a compiler, we don't really care if the compiler, assembler
or linker are needed and the files exchanged between them.
Best regards,
david
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] OCaml editor running tests or other tasks in background?
2013-10-02 17:06 ` Gabriel Scherer
2013-10-02 18:53 ` David MENTRÉ
@ 2013-10-02 18:56 ` Jeremie Salvucci
2013-10-03 6:06 ` David MENTRE
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Jeremie Salvucci @ 2013-10-02 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gabriel Scherer; +Cc: David MENTRE, caml users
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You also have OcaIDE available as an Eclipse plugin
(http://www.algo-prog.info/ocaide/).
On 10/02/2013 07:06 PM, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
> I think the most advanced project regarding IDE integration nowadays
> is Merlin ( https://github.com/def-lkb/merlin ), which gives direct
> feedback on syntax and typing errors. It doesn't have any knowledge of
> unit tests or coverage checking, but it would probably be the right
> tool to start with to integrate such a feature.
>
> Note that there has been a bit of back-and-forth on the instant
> feedback feature. Previous iterations were deemed a bit too visually
> invasive, and some people don't like to risk being interrupted by
> their IDE while they think about their code. I think it's always
> better to have the feature available, but there is clearly some tuning
> to have, and potential for overdoing it.
>
> The other project that jumps to mind is the Why3 IDE (
> http://why3.lri.fr/ ). It seems they're not hype enough to have video
> stuff available, but from what I remember the GUI does a pretty good
> job of giving feedback on how external provers run, and pieces of code
> that were previously verified and aren't anymore.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 6:00 PM, David MENTRE <dmentre@linux-france.org
> <mailto:dmentre@linux-france.org>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Somebody has recently shown me the NCrunch (http://www.ncrunch.net/)
> plug-in running under Microsoft Visual Studio and I was quite
> impressed by it. This plug-in allows to define and run a test suite on
> a C# program. The very nice thing about NCrunch is that the tests are
> run in the background, without any user intervention (without even the
> need to save files!). A set of coloured icons are displayed next to
> each test to see if the test succeeded or not and some additional
> pop-ups or right-clicks bring additional information. This approach
> brings a very fluent way to develop some code and test it
> simultaneously.
>
> In the same spirit, I have seen the Dafny development environment for
> proved programs
> (https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/dafny/), still on
> Visual Studio, where this time Verification Conditions and proofs of
> the program being edited are generated and run in the background, with
> coloured icons displaying the result. Once again, no need for the user
> to click on icons or do any specific action.
>
> So my question: are there similar OCaml editors available or being
> worked on that would allow running tasks in the background and
> displaying result in the editor without user intervention?
>
> There is apparently a lot of development in the OCaml development
> environment these days so somebody might already work on something
> similar.
>
> By "OCaml editor", I am voluntarily ambiguous: I am interested in both
> editor to program in OCaml and editor programmed in OCaml (or
> interfaced with OCaml) and which could be used for other languages.
>
> Best regards,
> david
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] OCaml editor running tests or other tasks in background?
2013-10-02 18:53 ` David MENTRÉ
@ 2013-10-02 18:57 ` Simon Cruanes
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Simon Cruanes @ 2013-10-02 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David MENTRÉ; +Cc: Gabriel Scherer, caml users
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Le Wed, 02 Oct 2013, David MENTRÉ a écrit :
> Hello,
>
> 2013-10-02 19:06, Gabriel Scherer:
> >I think the most advanced project regarding IDE integration nowadays is
> >Merlin ( https://github.com/def-lkb/merlin ), which gives direct
> >feedback on syntax and typing errors. It doesn't have any knowledge of
> >unit tests or coverage checking, but it would probably be the right tool
> >to start with to integrate such a feature.
>
> Thanks for the pointer.
>
> >Note that there has been a bit of back-and-forth on the instant feedback
> >feature. Previous iterations were deemed a bit too visually invasive,
> >and some people don't like to risk being interrupted by their IDE while
> >they think about their code. I think it's always better to have the
> >feature available, but there is clearly some tuning to have, and
> >potential for overdoing it.
>
> I've only seen demos and never used this feature a lot. You probably
> right that such a feature should be correctly tuned.
>
> >The other project that jumps to mind is the Why3 IDE (
> >http://why3.lri.fr/ ). It seems they're not hype enough to have video
> >stuff available, but from what I remember the GUI does a pretty good job
> >of giving feedback on how external provers run, and pieces of code that
> >were previously verified and aren't anymore.
>
> I've used Why3 IDE on a regular basis. This IDE is far from what I
> am looking for because one needs to do explicit actions to launch
> the provers. And Why3 IDE is focused on VCs, not the original source
> code (event if the code is displayed). Ideally, one would edit a
> WhyML file in an editor and the proved VC would be displayed
> automatically, like in Dafny. In fact the purpose of an editor I'm
> looking for would be to hide as much as possible the machinery to
> generate VC, launch provers, etc., from the user (and the same for
> test, doc generation, etc.). After all, when we call a compiler, we
> don't really care if the compiler, assembler or linker are needed
> and the files exchanged between them.
I agree with Gabriel, something close to what merlin does for type
errors would probably be the best thing. If tests were launched every
time you hit "save", run in the background, and display a warning (the
same way merlin already does for compilation warnings), it would be a
tight feedback loop indeed.
There are some facilities for writing unit tests directly in source
code, at least in Batteries. That would keep everything in the same
editor page.
My 2 cents
--
Simon
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] OCaml editor running tests or other tasks in background?
2013-10-02 18:56 ` Jeremie Salvucci
@ 2013-10-03 6:06 ` David MENTRE
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: David MENTRE @ 2013-10-03 6:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jeremie Salvucci; +Cc: Gabriel Scherer, caml users
Hello Jérémie,
2013/10/2 Jeremie Salvucci <jeremie.salvucci@free.fr>:
> You also have OcaIDE available as an Eclipse plugin
> (http://www.algo-prog.info/ocaide/).
I'm new to Eclipse. Is there any facility to do what I would like to
have in the Eclipse eco-system?
Best regards,
david
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2013-10-02 16:00 [Caml-list] OCaml editor running tests or other tasks in background? David MENTRE
2013-10-02 17:06 ` Gabriel Scherer
2013-10-02 18:53 ` David MENTRÉ
2013-10-02 18:57 ` Simon Cruanes
2013-10-02 18:56 ` Jeremie Salvucci
2013-10-03 6:06 ` David MENTRE
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