From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.4 required=5.0 tests=SPF_NEUTRAL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.105]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69CEDBC6C for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:48:10 +0100 (CET) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAGTcnUdC+VLqgGdsb2JhbACQHQEBCQgrgRSUK4Vt X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.25,262,1199660400"; d="scan'208";a="21906662" Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.234]) by mail4-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 28 Jan 2008 22:48:09 +0100 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h27so1265672wxd.15 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:48:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=f2A3bJk5Wm1INBap/R1oTzSBYkcdGV8faAaHS04epQY=; b=Tt1aextCr3fMgS9jYdoxTK/1izBgZ+q6lLxwpCxNLvs4wK7vOJcCbhxF5TW0q5rwOcweXgXHS/RMvtdnMFqYq91vdLeRIYa3cohTSEC0xi2ZXfRGMhzu2lDE6uNUQ6JH+UIXK1ZXjbeLuSvt1op1LnM/dP22ZiiyOAiayvohY14= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VendiM7H77GywOHqdbR8yOtTIaouuOOiFQ3VpBOZBBpQSWxACNIDy9LfsDi9W1Vj7udVT0oGjnPKZGRPS+q2YWkO47KAvHx5NdAO/ffFIiWgAOLr78lprrOyJrxkCQbO/W59/8NqzERtQAbZpi3N0fn9RhAcRbQq/XrYTVNPvQk= Received: by 10.142.187.2 with SMTP id k2mr2757303wff.163.1201556887524; Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:48:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.139.13 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:48:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <527cf6bc0801281348j379b780v6b5d8a515f5921ba@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:48:07 +0100 From: "blue storm" To: "Dario Teixeira" Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Alterlib? (was "Re: The OCaml Community") Cc: "Hezekiah M. Carty" , "Jon Harrop" , caml-list@yquem.inria.fr In-Reply-To: <354839.73879.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3a360f590801281216r28ad06f1ufadf4d7ceb74b84c@mail.gmail.com> <354839.73879.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 stdlib:01 stdlib:01 overriding:01 model:01 ocaml:01 camlp:01 commas:01 inria's:01 tarball:01 beginner's:01 bug:01 storm:98 ditch:98 campaign:98 a) doesn't seem to be an option : the INRIA won't include in stdlib things they don't want to maintain, and they don't want to maintain anything more. I don't think point c) is a really good idea : most people are quite comfortable with Stdlib now. Do you have *really* good reasons to create an interface-incompatible library ? I don't think so : lots of people have expressed concern for the lack of something in the Stdlib, but i haven't seen anybody actually complaining about one of the provided functions (except for the tail-rec thing, wich isn't an incompatible change). If all the change you want to make are compatible (either addition of plain new functions/modules, or interface-compatible changes of existing ones), then i think the "overriding" model of Extlib is fine. What does -nopervasives give us in that case ? On 1/28/08, Dario Teixeira wrote: > > My understanding is that the benefits would come from having a richer, > > community developed "official" OCaml distribution. So the stdlib > > would stay in place, but extra items would be included as well. For > > example, package ExtLib and some commonly useful Camlp4 extensions > > along with the distribution .tar.gz/.exe/.dmg. If I understood the > > meeting transcription in IRC, the official OCaml folks at INRIA would > > bless this as the proper way to get and install OCaml once the > > community structure is in place. > > Hi, > > For compatibility reasons, Stdlib must be part of any standard Ocaml > distribution for the foreseeable future. However, this does not > necessarily mean that the only community solution must be to provide > an ExtLib that complements Stdlib. If it is felt that Stdlib+Extlib > does not fit well together (different conventions, etc), there is > always the option of creating "from scratch" a self-contained Alterlib > that incorporates everything you would wish from a standard library. > (note that I've written "from scratch" between commas because a lot > of code from Extlib and other open-source libraries could be reused). > > Users who have heavily invested in Stdlib could continue using it; > others, however, could very well choose to ditch it altogether and > make sole use of Alterlib (with "-nopervasives", of course). > > In short, here are the options: > > a) modify Stdlib to suit the community's needs (complicated due > to copyright issues and because INRIA does not have the manpower > to effectively maintain all the additions); > > b) keep Stdlib and put all the community's needs into Extlib > (in a sense this the current situation; has the advantage of > being straightforward; has the disadvantage that the APIs > might not always go well together); > > c) keep stdlib for compatibility reasons (INRIA's tarball must > always include it), but provide a community built Alterlib > that reimplements what's good about Stdlib together with > stuff currently on Extlib (requires more work, but may > result in a more modern, more consistent library) > > Do I read the situation correctly? > > Kind regards, > Dario Teixeira > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo! For Good > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ > > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >