From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 469C87FA5E for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 18:09:56 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; spf=None smtp.pra=marshall@logical.net; spf=Pass smtp.mailfrom=marshall@logical.net; spf=None smtp.helo=postmaster@smtp686.redcondor.net Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of marshall@logical.net) identity=pra; client-ip=208.80.206.86; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="marshall@logical.net"; x-sender="marshall@logical.net"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: domain of marshall@logical.net designates 208.80.206.86 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=208.80.206.86; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="marshall@logical.net"; x-sender="marshall@logical.net"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@smtp686.redcondor.net) identity=helo; client-ip=208.80.206.86; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="marshall@logical.net"; x-sender="postmaster@smtp686.redcondor.net"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3AujifixGplLtNWle3ss2UTZ1GYnF86YWxBRYc798d?= =?us-ascii?q?s5kLTJ7zp86wAkXT6L1XgUPTWs2DsrQf2raQ6/iocFdDyK7JiGoFfp1IWk1Nou?= =?us-ascii?q?QttCtkPvS4D1bmJuXhdS0wEZcKflZk+3amLRodQ56mNBXdrXKo8DEdBAj0OxZr?= =?us-ascii?q?KeTpAI7SiNm82/yv95HJbQhFgDWwbaluIBmqsA7cqtQYjYx+J6gr1xDHuGFIe+?= =?us-ascii?q?NYxWNpIVKcgRPx7dqu8ZBg7ipdpesv+9ZPXqvmcas4S6dYDCk9PGAu+MLrrxjD?= =?us-ascii?q?QhCR6XYaT24bjwBHAwnB7BH9Q5fxri73vfdz1SWGIcH7S60/VC+85Kl3VhDnlC?= =?us-ascii?q?YHNyY48G7JjMxwkLlbqw+lqxBm3oLYfJ2ZOP94c6jAf90VWHBBU95RWSNdH42y?= =?us-ascii?q?bIUBAfQOMuhftITyvUcCrR6kCAmsGO/iyDlFjWL2060g1OQhFBnL0gs6ENIUq3?= =?us-ascii?q?TUrM/6NKMWUeuoy6TIyC/Mb+lN2Tf98ofIdhQhrOqIXbJ3fsrRyFUgGBnBjlmK?= =?us-ascii?q?r4zqIS+V2/0LvmOG4eRgUuevhHQmqwF3ujWvwdsjhZPMhoIR0FzE8j95wIkzKN?= =?us-ascii?q?alS0B7ecapHIVMuyyZLYd7Qd8uT3t2tComy7AKo522cSkSxJkl2hLTcfOKfoiS?= =?us-ascii?q?7h7+VOudOyl0iG5ldb+5mh2861KvyvfmWcmxyFtKrjRKkt3Ltn0VzBzT79SHSu?= =?us-ascii?q?N880qi2DuDzRrT5f9ZLk8okqrbLYMuwrkqlpYJt0TMADP2lF33jK+QaEok5vCl?= =?us-ascii?q?5/r7brjlvJORNJN4hhvgPqgym8GzG+c1PwkWU2ie4+u81bnj/UPjQLVNi/07iq?= =?us-ascii?q?zZv4rAJcQApq62GQtV0oI45ha7CDem39UYkmUdI1JBYh6HiZbmO03WLPDiEfi/?= =?us-ascii?q?m0iskCtsx/3eIrLuGJDNLnzanLflfLZ98FJcxREozdFf4pJUEqsOLOjyWk/3rt?= =?us-ascii?q?zYDwU2Pxa6w+b9W51B0dY5cmuKBue8OaLWsFmHrsYuOPXEMIQcvTK4L/k++9bv?= =?us-ascii?q?i2U4kBkTZ//684EQbSWdF+59I0ydZTK4h94bCmcDug4WSOvliVaLVXhVamrkDP?= =?us-ascii?q?F03S0yFI/zVdSLfYuqmrHUmX7jRpA=3D?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DQAgBHixRZmFbOUNBcHQEFAQsBGAEFA?= =?us-ascii?q?QsBgkOBSQOBCYNpsWiCDySLD0EWAQEBAQEBAQEBAQESAQEBAQEICwsGKC+CMyI?= =?us-ascii?q?BgmlLaAJfJweKBwWhKpALgiaLAAEBASSGXoIKgjyEaBECAYMtL4IxBYdnDIk0j?= =?us-ascii?q?GOBW4EThC6OWIEHhyKGaZAAhEMmDHEzC08sCkYSAYJRgiKCDViIXAEBAQ?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DQAgBHixRZmFbOUNBcHQEFAQsBGAEFAQsBgkOBSQOBCYN?= =?us-ascii?q?psWiCDySLD0EWAQEBAQEBAQEBAQESAQEBAQEICwsGKC+CMyIBgmlLaAJfJweKB?= =?us-ascii?q?wWhKpALgiaLAAEBASSGXoIKgjyEaBECAYMtL4IxBYdnDIk0jGOBW4EThC6OWIE?= =?us-ascii?q?HhyKGaZAAhEMmDHEzC08sCkYSAYJRgiKCDViIXAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.38,325,1491256800"; d="scan'208,217";a="272719657" Received: from smtp686.redcondor.net ([208.80.206.86]) by mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA256; 11 May 2017 18:09:54 +0200 Received: from outbound2.logical.net ([209.23.116.122]) by smtp686.redcondor.net ({e3ea6d01-6d4b-4072-b8fb-88b14e97b3f0}) via TCP (outbound) with ESMTPS id 20170511160950906_0686 for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 16:09:50 +0000 X-RC-FROM: X-RC-RCPT: Received: from [192.168.2.6] (71-45-15-205.res.bhn.net [71.45.15.205]) (authenticated bits=0) by outbound2.logical.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v4BG9gYZ015880 for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 12:09:43 -0400 From: Marshall Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A1435970-EE0C-49AB-9A78-0AF2ADC5FB02" Message-Id: <52D586B0-6C5C-426A-9D15-712B9C409CCA@logical.net> Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 11:09:41 -0500 To: OCaml Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-MAG-OUTBOUND: logical.redcondor.net@209.23.116/24 Subject: [Caml-list] Change policy on beginners list? --Apple-Mail=_A1435970-EE0C-49AB-9A78-0AF2ADC5FB02 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99m an OCaml beginner, so you would think that I would find the OCa= ml beginners=E2=80=99 list helpful. However, every interaction I have with= Yahoo groups just pushes me away. There are obnoxious ads in the web inte= rface, which is not very intuitive anyway. I could use the beginners list/= group via email, but that would require using my Yahoo email address, which= I don=E2=80=99t have set up on any of my mail clients. When I go into the= Yahoo web mail interface, I mainly see a list of junk mail that I don=E2= =80=99t care about, so I don=E2=80=99t want to use the Yahoo address. More= than once, I have thought, =E2=80=9CI should use the OCaml beginners=E2=80= =99 list.=E2=80=9D When I start to go down that path, I stop. Yahoo group= s are too distasteful. I=E2=80=99m not sure how many other people feel thi= s way, but surely I=E2=80=99m not alone. That means that for some new OCam= l users, the public face of OCaml support pushes us away. So sending new u= sers to the Yahoo group seems unhelpful to the growth of OCaml. I personally find Google groups easier to use. They=E2=80=99re not perfect= , but the web interface doesn=E2=80=99t include ads. Might it be a good th= ing to move the beginners=E2=80=99 list to Google groups or some other syst= em? Obviously, this change should not be done suddenly. There would have = to be period=E2=80=94possibly indefinite=E2=80=94during which both lists we= re available. (At present, when I want help on OCaml questions, I go to StackOverflow, wh= ere people have been very helpful. This is a good solution for me, and it= =E2=80=99s easy to browse the latest OCaml questions. However, the way tha= t the ocaml.org community page is set up encourages beginners to use the Ya= hoo group. There is a StackOverflow icon down at the bottom of the page, b= ut you have to investigate that on your own. In any event, I do like the i= dea of using an online group or mailing list focused on beginners questions= , so I personally would welcome a beginners Google group. I don=E2=80=99t = expect to use the Yahoo group.) Marshall Abrams= --Apple-Mail=_A1435970-EE0C-49AB-9A78-0AF2ADC5FB02 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99m an OCaml beginner, so you would think= that I would find the OCaml beginners=E2=80=99 list helpful.  However= , every interaction I have with Yahoo groups just pushes me away.  The= re are obnoxious ads in the web interface, which is not very intuitive anyw= ay.  I could use the beginners list/group via email, but that would re= quire using my Yahoo email address, which I don=E2=80=99t have set up on an= y of my mail clients.  When I go into the Yahoo web mail interface, I = mainly see a list of junk mail that I don=E2=80=99t care about, so I don=E2= =80=99t want to use the Yahoo address.  More than once, I have thought, =E2=80=9CI should use = the OCaml beginners=E2=80=99 list.=E2=80=9D  When I start to go down t= hat path, I stop.  Yahoo groups are too distasteful.  I=E2=80=99m= not sure how many other people feel this way, but surely I=E2=80=99m not a= lone.  That means that for some new OCaml users, the public face of OC= aml support pushes us away.  So sending new users to the Yahoo group s= eems unhelpful to the growth of OCaml.

<= div class=3D"">I personally fin= d Google groups easier to use.  They=E2=80=99re not perfect, but the w= eb interface doesn=E2=80=99t include ads.  Might it be a good thing to= move the beginners=E2=80=99 list to Google groups or some other system? &n= bsp;Obviously, this change should not be done suddenly.  There would h= ave to be period=E2=80=94possibly indefinite=E2=80=94during which both list= s were available.

(At present, when I wa= nt help on OCaml questions, I go to StackOverflow, where people have been v= ery helpful.  This is a good solution for me, and it=E2=80=99s easy to= browse the latest OCaml questions.  However, the way that the ocaml.org community page is set up enc= ourages beginners to use the Yahoo group.  There is a StackOverflow ic= on down at the bottom of the page, but you have to investigate that on your= own.  In any event, I do like the idea of using an online group or ma= iling list focused on beginners questions, so I personally would welcome a = beginners Google group.  I don=E2=80=99t expect to use the Yahoo group= .)


Marshall Abrams
= --Apple-Mail=_A1435970-EE0C-49AB-9A78-0AF2ADC5FB02--